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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sugartea on Wednesday 09 March 22 22:23 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
This is my first post to the forum in some considerable time - I hope you are all well.
I'm hoping that someone out there with knowledge of 1940s fashion might be able to help me describe the outfit that my grandmother was wearing at her wedding that year. I have absolutely no knowledge of how to describe an outfit, particularly a lady's one!
The reason I ask is that I am writing an account of my grandparents' lives and I have reached the year of their marriage. I know next to nothing about their actual wedding day, but we have some lovely photos, and it occurred to me that one thing I could do would be to write about what my Grandma wore that day. Is there anyone out there who could help? I attach a couple of photos here.
Equally, if anyone out there might happen to know the make and model of the car in the attached picture, I would love to know that too. :)
Thanks so much in advance.
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Welcome to rootschat sugartea. :)
Newspaper reports usually describe wedding outfits in quite floury language and include lots of detail. It may not be the case during war time, and as your grandmother is wearing a smart outfit rather than a traditional wedding dress, detail may be less. I don’t have access to newspapers but maybe someone who does can dig up some examples for you.
They may describe the style of outfit, the fabric, the flowers used in the bouquet/buttonholes, colours of everything, attendants - their names and what they wore, the regiment etc that the husband was in, where they went on honeymoon (probably not during war time), the church or register office where they married, information about the wedding breakfast - where it was held, and what they ate, other family in attendance, and their names - basically anything and everything.
Regarding the description of your grandmother’s outfit, I might leave that to someone else, but it looks like she might be wearing a “dress coat” - (unsure if that is the correct term). :)
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My mother had a "clutch coat", but it appears from surfing that this lady was wearing what was known as an "occasion coat" or "dress coat" of the period.
From the length of the outfit and the "peep toe" shoes, it could have been a 1947 "New Look" outfit.
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In the group photo are the older folks, groom’s father and bride’s mother?
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I'm not a fashion expert by any means.
I would personally describe the dress as a cut out lace dress. It seems to be white or cream lace over a light coloured overlay, with a small dark coloured bow at the neck. She's wearing dark coloured peep toe shoes.
I'm not sure how you'd describe the hat. I think it's a dark felt. Looking at the hats on this link, it is maybe closest to a Homburg or Fedora, but it's difficult to say given the angles.
https://vintagedancer.com/1940s/1940s-hats/
The 'bag' is a horseshoe charm for good luck, likely made from cardboard and ribbon, the flower on it might be made from paper.
https://www.magpiewedding.com/vintage-weddings/wedding-memories-lucky-horseshoe-charms/
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I have seen that style of coat described as an “ edge to edge coat” ,it is lovely
and so nice to see the floral dress underneath.
A perfect fit too.
The hat would be described as “ off the face “ and the flowers ,properly a corsage , are in lieu of a bouquet.
I can’t see a horseshoe,nor the actual toes of the shoes but what seems to be a shine on the Bride’s shoes.
What a strong resemblance there is between the groom and his father.
Clothes were on coupons and so people did not have many ,that outfit would be her best one for a few years.
Gosh, how lovely and simple by comparison with todays ‘ “ Big Weddings”.
Bet it lasted well!
Viktoria.
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Newspaper reports usually describe wedding outfits in quite floury language ...
I like that idea - presumably you meant flowery ? :D
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The corsage is white carnations with a bit of fern behind. Used at weddings for buttonholes for many years. Apparently carnations and ferns are now coming back into fashion.
Could the coat be cream and accessories navy blue.
I agree with looking for a newspaper report, I have one that even listed the wedding presents and who gave them. Also the gift of necklaces given by the groom to the bridesmaids .
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It is certainly a horseshoe on a ribbon rather than a handbag.
I think the shoes have a bow across across the arch on the light bit on each shoe is an open bit between the bows and the toes- sort of like these-
https://www.rubyshoo.com/ruby-shoo-willow-high-cut-ribbon-tie-shoe-in-red-noir-138800?09402RDNR165L033605
(if they were peep-toe shoes her feet would be way too small)
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Sorry I only brought up one of the photographs ,now I see the horseshoe .
Yes made of silver card,with paper flowers and ribbons,a message inside with best wishes for a long and happy marriage .
I have mine still ,the silver card a bit dull now after 66 years.!
Often given by friends.
Mine was.
That coat sits beautifully , what a fit!
Yes I see peep toe shoes, don’t think there is a white part but the peep toe bit is very white.
Would love to know what the colours were .
Hope they were very happy.
Viktoria.
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Newspaper reports usually describe wedding outfits in quite floury language ...
I like that idea - presumably you meant flowery ? :D
Haha. Yes, of course. ;D
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I think the hat, the gloves and the shoes were all of the same colour.
In those decades shoe shops would oblige customers by having matching accessories and if by chance shoes didn't match the handbag/hat, then the shop would oblige by dyeing the shoes to match.
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No idea about dress but the car headlights are fitted with blackout covers.
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I think the hat, the gloves and the shoes were all of the same colour.
In those decades shoe shops would oblige customers by having matching accessories and if by chance shoes didn't match the handbag/hat, then the shop would oblige by dyeing the shoes to match.
Funny you should mention the shoes, hat and gloves. I felt they looked a bit “heavy” for the light coloured dress and coat, and wondered if they were items that the bride already had in her wardrobe. I may be off the mark with that observation, and perhaps that was the fashion.
I agree that they all look to be the same colour - it is interesting to know that dyeing was an option.
The coat looks new, and the dress probably is too.
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I agree Ruskie, the hat is not the best match for such a lovely coat and dress.
But clothes and shoes were on coupons so that limited things.
However ,practicality was the order of the day and much more wear out of dark accessories than light ones.
If the headlights were shaded then it would be wartime .
So a wartime wedding with rationing and clothes coupons etc .
The Groom an active soldier then , home on leave.
Aaaw, tell us more please,
Viktoria.
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From stories told to me, it seems the husbands of my mum and her many sisters shared ownership of a second hand car just after the war. In photos of various trips taken in it, it appears very similar to the one here. I think our families car was an Austin seven, although at some point there was also a Morris eight.
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Hi everyone, and thanks so much for all your replies. All very much appreciated! :)
I'm sorry, it hadn't occurred to me to include any more details about my grandparents, Viktoria, but yes, you are correct - theirs was a wartime wedding. My grandfather was away in County Durham immediately beforehand, serving with the RASC, and came home on leave to get married. In fact, whilst I have always known the date of their wedding - 17th July 1940 - the penny only dropped last night that this was exactly one week into the officially recognised start of the Battle of Britain. They were married in Horam (not Horsham), East Sussex, so beneath the very skies were the dogfights were beginning to get underway. I also only learned last night that the first German bombs to fall on their district actually landed at midday on the very day they were married. It was very interesting to sit and reflect on how the timing of their wedding would have been determined by the war, and how the character of their wedding would also have been heavily affected by the war. I hadn't noticed that the car headlights in that photo had been fitted with blackout covers - what a fascinating snippet of information for me to include in my writing. Thank you, Youngtug!
Sourcing a newspaper is an excellent idea - thank you for the suggestion. I know that my grandmother's sister's wedding three months later somehow made the front page of the Sussex Express and County Herald newspaper, so I like my chances of finding something.
Thank you also, everyone, for the information about my Grandma's outfit. I've collated what everyone has said and, unless anyone has any other suggestions, I'll say in my writing that she "appears to have been wearing a cream-coloured dress coat, a light-coloured dress overlaid with white or cream floral-patterned lace and with a small bow at the neck, shoes with a bow across the arch (possibly but not certainly peep-toe) with gloves and an off-the-face felt hat in matching colour - possibly navy blue. She carried a horseshoe charm for good luck, likely made from silver cardboard, paper flowers and ribbon, and wore a corsage of white carnations and ferns in lieu of a bouquet." I will also make clear that some of these clothes were probably items that she already had in her wardrobe. Does that all sound about right? As a 45-year-old bloke with not even the foggiest idea about fashion, I honestly have no idea how to describe clothes! It feels nice to have been able to put together this description, though, as I agree she does look lovely. Thank you all for your help.
Finally, to pick up on one other of your comments, Viktoria, yes - they were very happy indeed. They were never hugely well off, and they had their ups, downs and health issues like anyone else, they were married for 59 years and both died in 1999 within two months of each other. I loved them both very much, and I'm now trying to write an account of their lives for my own children, who never knew them. Thank you all for helping me to achieve that ambition.
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I don't think the dress is 'overlaid with lace'.
I think the design of the fabric possibly has a lacy look to it :-\
I would certainly look for a report in a local newspaper. My mother's wedding dress and going away outfit were both described in the report of my 1945 parents wedding in the local newspaper.
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my parents married in 1947 this is part of the newspaper cutting:
The bride, given away by her father, wore a gown of ivory crepe with train and embroidered veil and feathered headdress. She carried a bouquet of dark red roses and carnations. All carried bouquets of multi coloured sweet peas and wore ankle length delphinium blue figured crepe dresses. further details about best man and where the reception was.
Mr and Mrs left for their honeymoon in St Ives, the bride travelling in a grass green suit with matching accessories.
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I think the bride looks spiffing (lovely).
Wartime regulations meant ladies clothes were strictly monitored and the hemline on new clothes was just below the knee.
The toes of the shoes might reflect sunlight but I thought I spotted two toes in the shoe on the left.
The style of her hat reminds me of the new green felt hat I bought and the red felt hat that my best friend bought to go with our new camel coloured coats circa 1956.
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My parents married in 1940, because of restrictions she had a second-hand white moire taffetta dress, relations wore their army uniforms. Her wedding cake was a small one which was put under a cardboard "dummy"!
This lady looks very elegant in her outfit, it is very well fitted.
rayard.
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I would made amend the coat description to "cream-coloured belted dress coat," (the belt & buckle shows up in pictures 1 and 3)
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I would say 1940s, many couples who married whilst their Husband was on leave got married in dresses or suits rather than a wedding dress, as material was in short supply. My in-laws married 1944 and my Mil's wedding dress was made of parachute silk.
Carol
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I would say 1940s, many couples who married whilst their Husband was on leave got married in dresses or suits rather than a wedding dress, as material was in short supply.
My uncle, who was in the Merchant Navy in WW2, wore his uniform and his bride wore a suit. There was a detailed wedding report in the local newspaper of the small town where they both lived.
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We were never well off ,but were happy with a modest “ enough” ,that was common to most couples in those days, in fact the “pulling together “ seemed to consolidate the union.
There used to be a card ,commonly given to newly married couples .
Two donkeys,tethered together ,facing in opposite directions .
In front of each ,just out of reach a pile of hay .
At first the donkeys pull in opposite directions ,thus achieving nothing .
They look at each other and understanding dawns ,both go to one pile and share it then to the other and share that .
Moral , work together and you will get much more than being in opposition .
So glad you have their story.
Viktoria.
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I had guessed that the car might be an Austin 7, but I couldn’t find a convincing image that matched. Reply #15 prompted me to check out the Morris 8. I think the car here is probably a Morris 8 Series II.
If you go to https://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=73369&country=uk (https://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=73369&country=uk) you can view a gallery. It’s the thing at the rear that ‘supports’ the spare wheel that is the most convincing detail I think. The car at the linked site doesn’t have wire-spoked wheels, but apart from that…
…what do you think?
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Good evening,
The car pictured is far to big to be an Austin 7. Maybe an Austin 12 or 14 although I don't see a bonnet emblem standing up. will have to take a look at them.
John915
Added; I am unable to find any model of Austin with that style of rear bumper/rack.
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I agree that they all look to be the same colour - it is interesting to know that dyeing was an option.
I think that option has been around for a long time. Our elder daughter was married in 2000 and was a bridesmaid earlier. On both occasions she had to get plain shoes dyed to suit the chosen outfits - partly because she has very small feet. On the plus side, for everyday shoes she can buy children's sizes and avoid VAT :D
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I have seen that style of coat described as an “ edge to edge coat” ,it is lovely
and so nice to see the floral dress underneath.
A perfect fit too.
The hat would be described as “ off the face “ and the flowers ,properly a corsage , are in lieu of a bouquet.
I can’t see a horseshoe,nor the actual toes of the shoes but what seems to be a shine on the Bride’s shoes.
What a strong resemblance there is between the groom and his father.
Clothes were on coupons and so people did not have many ,that outfit would be her best one for a few years.
Gosh, how lovely and simple by comparison with todays ‘ “ Big Weddings”.
Bet it lasted well!
Viktoria.
Yes, I was going to post that it's an edge to edge coat. The style came back into fashion briefly in the early 80s and I had a grey jacket which I remember my gran telling me was like a wartime edge to edge jacket.
Coincidentally, my gran married in 1942 and the dark coat the other lady is wearing looks exactly like the one my great grandmother wore with a similar hat. I've also thought it looked a bit severe for a wedding but I suppose it was Sunday best.
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I think the car may be a Singer 9, "Bantam"
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https://images.prewarcar.com/pics/fb-350x263-products/39669/de0db36deabda65eb7dd1efd.png
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Edge to edge coats are available these days. I’m no follower of fashion, but I’ve noticed them (re)appear in the last couple of years.
I imagine that having shoes or accessories dyed would substantially add to the cost. Still for weddings these days that is probably not a consideration. :) I like the idea of a modest wedding.
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Good evening,
The car pictured is far to big to be an Austin 7. Maybe an Austin 12 or 14 although I don't see a bonnet emblem standing up. will have to take a look at them.
John915
Added; I am unable to find any model of Austin with that style of rear bumper/rack.
Agreed. What about my suggestion, above, that it is a Morris 8, Series II?
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I seem to remember women wore a two piece ‘costume’ rather than a suit, suits were for men :)
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I think the car may be a Singer 9, "Bantam"
As far as I can see from online images, the Singer Bantam had a fence-like constraint over the spare wheel. The car in the image here has a sort of shelf, which is why I suggested that it is a Morris 8, Series II.
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The rear wheel arch has a different profile on the Morris.
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The rear wheel arch has a different profile on the Morris.
Yes, I have to agree with that.
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It may not be a Singer but it was the nearest match for the wheel arch that I could find.
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It may not be a Singer but it was the nearest match for the wheel arch that I could find.
And I was fixated on the spare wheel.
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I imagine that having shoes or accessories dyed would substantially add to the cost. Still for weddings these days that is probably not a consideration. :) I like the idea of a modest wedding.
Probably cheaper than buying new and wouldn't have required clothing coupons.
Clothes rationing began June 1941 and lasted until March 1949. Allocation of coupons varied during the period.
Some informative articles with photos on Imperial War Museum website.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/8-facts-about-clothes-rationing-in-britain-during-the-second-world-war
"What to Wear to a Wartime Wedding"
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-to-wear-to-a-wartime-wedding
This is a collection of wedding stories + photos from various years in 1940s.
Also "War History Online" website
https://warhistoryonline.com/featured/clothing-rationing-wwii.html
Examples of coupon allocations:
First ration book from June 1941 contained 66 coupons for a year. Number of coupons in a book later decreased to 48. Decreased again to average 3 coupons per month from September 1945.
Coat=16 coupons; dress=11; men's shoes=7; women's shoes=5; underwear=8; stockings =2.
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I’ll have a look at your interesting links shortly MS. Sorry I was unclear about accessory dyeing - I was referring to Andrew’s aughter having accessories dyed for her wedding.
I understand that during war time/rationing, this would have been a good alternative to buying new.
In the past I have changed the colour of my own shoes …. there used to be a paint you could apply. (Success not guaranteed.) :)
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In the past I have changed the colour of my own shoes …. there used to be a paint you could apply. (Success not guaranteed.) :)
I had shoe dyes in several colours and used them to cover badly scuffed patches.
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In the past I have changed the colour of my own shoes …. there used to be a paint you could apply. (Success not guaranteed.) :)
I had shoe dyes in several colours and used them to cover badly scuffed patches.
I still have a bottle of Meltonian black shoe dye with a sponge attached inside the lid. It must be an antique by now, used on scuffed suede shoes.
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Thank you again, everyone, for all your kind help and assistance. Very much appreciated. :)