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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Friday 04 March 22 13:34 GMT (UK)

Title: Where is Wales?
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 04 March 22 13:34 GMT (UK)
OK, I know where Wales (the country) is! I grew up there!

But I have just seen on another thread a comment that if "Wales" was stated in a USA census record as the place of birth of an immigrant, it meant Wales, UK, not Wales, NSW.

I didn't know there was a Wales in NSW. BUt how many people know there is a Wales in South Yorkshire? Yep, it's in the metropolitan district of Rotherham; and just to up the ante, it's 7 miles as the crow flies from Rhodesia   ::)

There must be lots of other duplicated placenames within the UK that potentially cause confusion. A friend of mine was convinced that her family were from the West Midlands for as far back as she could go, until I pointed out that the 1881 census actually gave the pob as Newcastle-o-T and not Newcastle under Lyme! And how many Newports are there? What others do people know?
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Friday 04 March 22 14:06 GMT (UK)
There is also a Wales in Maine.  My ancestors lived just over the county line in neighboring Litchfield.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales,_Maine
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 04 March 22 14:11 GMT (UK)
And Egypt is in Yorkshire, as well - near Thornton :o
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: ggrocott on Friday 04 March 22 14:23 GMT (UK)
Well I know there are a lot of villages called Whitchurch in England and a place called Gibraltar in Buckinghamshire.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: RJ_Paton on Friday 04 March 22 14:34 GMT (UK)
And Egypt is in Yorkshire, as well - near Thornton :o

and in the east end of Glasgow, Scotland.

Moscow in Ayrshire,California near Falkirk, Troon in Ayrshire and Cornwall.

All of which just emphasises the need to be accurate when recording place names.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: majm on Friday 04 March 22 15:04 GMT (UK)
 :D  :D  :D

The N.S.Wales  Archives are located at Kingswood, a suburb of the City of Penrith NSW, Australia.  Please never confuse that with Kingswood, a suburb of the City of Tamworth NSW, Australia.

Manilla is near Tamworth NSW
Texas is in Queensland
Newcastle is north of Swansea in NSW
Launceston is in Tasmania
1770 is a town in Queensland
Perth is in Western Australia
Auckland is in NSW
Wellington is in NSW
Londonderry is in NSW
Llandilo ... well of course, it is in NSW

 ;D

JM.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Friday 04 March 22 15:19 GMT (UK)
As far back as 1732, there was confusion about the location of Wales.  The grave stone of my 7X g-grandfather, Richard Tarr, in Rockport, Massachusetts says, "First settler of the town 1690, Born in Wales, England, Resided at Saco [Maine] in 1688, died 1732, Buried here in his own land, granted by him to the village for a burial ground."
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: mazi on Friday 04 March 22 16:42 GMT (UK)
Wales has also picked up a Bethlehem in its travels.  ;D

Mike

Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Raybistre on Friday 04 March 22 18:54 GMT (UK)
America is in Wales too. In Flintshire near Moel Findeg.
Ray
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Viktoria on Friday 04 March 22 21:03 GMT (UK)
Bury in Lancashire has a district known as Jericho,there are even bricks made there that closely resemble the famous Accrington Engineering bricks.
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: BrazilianBombshell on Friday 04 March 22 21:08 GMT (UK)
And a Cyprus in London.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: BrazilianBombshell on Friday 04 March 22 21:09 GMT (UK)
London, UK.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Friday 04 March 22 21:28 GMT (UK)
There is a London, Ontario, Canada. So anyone born there will be a Londoner. Canada style.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 04 March 22 22:37 GMT (UK)
Hull, East Yotkshire often filled in on Ancestry as being in Massachusetts. Very confusing when trees on Ancestry constantly list my Hull relies as born in Hull, Massachusetts  ::)
Carol
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Friday 04 March 22 23:21 GMT (UK)
Blame those unimaginative 15th century English settlers who named everything after some place in England. It was only later that the colonists began to appreciate and use the beautiful names the Native Americans had given to the landscape.  Right next door to Hull, MA is Cohasset and Scituate and Wompatuck.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: GrahamSimons on Saturday 05 March 22 07:20 GMT (UK)
And there's a Scotland and an Ireland in Wiltshire.....
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: ChrissieL on Saturday 05 March 22 09:42 GMT (UK)
My grandad was born in Quebec....but in county Durham, England - not Canada

Chris
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: suey on Saturday 05 March 22 13:37 GMT (UK)

No wonder family historians have a permanently furrowed brow and prematurely grey hair  ;D
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: andrewalston on Saturday 05 March 22 13:40 GMT (UK)
It has always been normal for emigrants to call their new places after their old ones. Often these are grouped together - Newcastle in New South Wales has a suburb called Wallsend, but little in the way of a Roman wall.

But it is not just emigrants who have done this! Off the top of my head:

George Marsh, later St. George the Martyr, lived at New York, a hamlet about a quarter of a mile from the parish church at Deane, south west of Bolton.

There's an area close to Edgbaston called California. I used to have my car serviced there.

Blackburn has an area known as Nova Scotia.

Chorley has an area known as Botany Bay, after the supposed ne'er-do-wells who frequented the area around the canal. To the south is an area formerly known as Abyssinia, because 150 years ago many of the people seen there were coal miners and so had black faces.

Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Saturday 05 March 22 14:07 GMT (UK)
I love the fact that America and Australia named their earliest British founded settlements after places in the UK. I think they felt homesick so decided to name them after places in the UK. Ignore the casual subtle racism from the people who say the English were unimaginative.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Saturday 05 March 22 14:38 GMT (UK)
"casual subtle racism"

rofl.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 05 March 22 14:50 GMT (UK)
Bury in Lancashire has a district known as Jericho,

The village of Edenfield is a few miles north. When I was a small child, I was convinced it was built on the site of the Garden of Eden.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Saturday 05 March 22 16:18 GMT (UK)
Near Boston in Massachusetts there is a Haverhill, Dedham, Newbury, Chelsmford, etc and many other places that were thankfully named after English settlements. So if I ever visited Boston I could feel at home.

There is a small parish called Dublin, Suffolk. So if anyone born there just put Dublin as their place of birth in the censuses and omitted the county, their descendants would think they had Irish blood.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: andrewalston on Saturday 05 March 22 16:30 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, Ancestry are to blame for a huge number of misplaced places.

Enter "Birmingham", for example, and they assume you mean the one in Alabama, rather than the British city which has 5 times the population.

Enter "Manchester", and you obviously meant the place in Jamaica, which does at least have a population larger than its New Hampshire namesake, but fails to have an international airport or a Premier League football club.

Lots of census entries have places of birth just like these, with no county named, because EVERYBODY knew just where they were. The transcriptions correctly reflect this, but Ancestry's algorithm assigns the record to Ancestry's "favourite" place without reference to the country where the record originates.

A typical Ancestry user doesn't check what their system has filled in. Only a small minority of us seem to correct things before moving on.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Saturday 05 March 22 16:48 GMT (UK)
I don't know about Ancestry, since I don't have a subscription, but FamilySearch favors Birmingham, West Midlands, England, United Kingdom over any other Birmingham when I do a general search for Smith in Birmingham.  There are 245 pages of results; I looked at the first five pages and there was no mention of Birmingham, Alabama.  Similarly, a search for Smith in Manchester places Manchester, Greater Manchester, England, United Kingdom first; no sign of Manchester, NH in the first five pages.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Saturday 05 March 22 19:15 GMT (UK)
Start typing in Somerset and the drop down menu may come up with Somalia for a split second when you have typed the "Som".

When I type in Sussex, I often get Sussex, Delaware, United States. Or Kent, Ohio as opposed to Kent, England.

Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: BrazilianBombshell on Saturday 05 March 22 19:36 GMT (UK)
There's a Pennsylvania Castle in Dorset.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Saturday 05 March 22 19:41 GMT (UK)
Sadly, and I know it is painful, Somalia precedes Somerset, alphabetically speaking, so it comes up first when 'Som' is typed.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 05 March 22 19:42 GMT (UK)
And Denbigh has a place named
Copenhagen
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 05 March 22 21:33 GMT (UK)
There is a London, Ontario, Canada. So anyone born there will be a Londoner. Canada style.

I spent years looking for the death of a g/uncle as I was told he'd died in 'London', except it was the one in Ontario  ::)


There's a similar thread on same here...

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=715157.0


There's a Holland & Canada West in the Orkney Isles (Scotland)


Annie
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 05 March 22 22:52 GMT (UK)
Blame those unimaginative 15th century English settlers who named everything after some place in England. It was only later that the colonists began to appreciate and use the beautiful names the Native Americans had given to the landscape.  Right next door to Hull, MA is Cohasset and Scituate and Wompatuck.

To be precise, Hull's full title is Kingston-upon-Hull, as it is situated on the river Hull, an aptly named title at the time. It now has City status.
Carol
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Saturday 05 March 22 23:01 GMT (UK)
No problem, there's a Kingston, Massachusetts, too.  It's a pleasant little town just north of Plymouth.  I used to go there occasionally with my mother when she lived in Duxbury just north of Kingston and south of Hull.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Saturday 05 March 22 23:24 GMT (UK)
There is a London, Ontario, Canada. So anyone born there will be a Londoner. Canada style.

I spent years looking for the death of a g/uncle as I was told he'd died in 'London', except it was the one in Ontario  ::)


There's a similar thread on same here...

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=715157.0


There's a Holland & Canada West in the Orkney Isles (Scotland)


Annie

The same for 2 parishes in a county of the same name, which can lead to a lot of confusion. Also London, Canada has a Thames I think. One member of another forum was asking for info on a couple when wed in 1845 in Newcastle, Northumberland. I asked what were the names of the fathers of the couple, their occupations and witnesses. The user replied with "It is Newcastle, Northumberland, Australia". He said there are no father's names listed. Just names, dates, church, and ages.



Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: andrewalston on Sunday 06 March 22 12:35 GMT (UK)
I used to go there occasionally with my mother when she lived in Duxbury just north of Kingston and south of Hull.

Duxbury is of course named after the one in Chorley. Myles Standish, of Mayflower fame, knew the original one well, as his cousins lived there.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Erato on Sunday 06 March 22 12:50 GMT (UK)
Yup, Myles Standish is buried there in "America's Oldest Maintained Cemetery."

https://newengland.com/today/travel/massachusetts/duxbury/
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Sunday 06 March 22 14:08 GMT (UK)
There is a Southend in South London as well as the (just become a) city in Essex.

Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 06 March 22 15:29 GMT (UK)
There is also a Bethlehem in Wales, and I have rellies in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Carol
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Dyingout on Sunday 06 March 22 16:17 GMT (UK)
And don't get me started on Uk multiple places

Norfolk has two Fritton's But one used to be in Suffolk until border reorg in 1972.

Two Yarmouth's one Great one not so much.

Hythe now there's a unique name, no it means Haven or small harbour. Hence there being three of them. Essex, Hampshire and Kent



Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 06 March 22 16:41 GMT (UK)
I was puzzled about a family who had children baptised at regular intervals over many years at a church in Lancashire (England) while their father's abode was a foreign, exotic place. Had he returned every couple of years, impregnated his wife and gone abroad again? Was the wife telling fibs about her husband being the father? What was more puzzling was parents and children were all buried in the local churchyard although their abode was still the foreign place. Investigating & poring over old maps, I found the exotic place - it was a farm on the moors above the village . 
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Sunday 06 March 22 18:00 GMT (UK)
  "Hythe now there's a unique name, no it means Haven or small harbour. Hence there being three of them. Essex, Hampshire and Kent."
   A good old Anglo-Saxon name then!
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Sunday 06 March 22 23:06 GMT (UK)
There is a Thetford in Lincolnshire as well as Norfolk.

The confusion between Great Yarmouth, Norfolk (often known as Yarmouth) and Yarmouth IOW is quite astounding as well. An ancestor mentions a "cosen of Yarmouth" in his will, but Yarmouth Norfolk or IOW? I have tried to trace his time in either but to no avail yet.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Gillg on Monday 07 March 22 11:10 GMT (UK)
Jericho near Bury, Lancs.
Gibraltar, near Silverdale, north Lancs. and also Buckinghamshire
Bermuda, Warwickshire
Palestine, Hampshire
Egypt, Buckinghamshire
Philadelphia, Tyne & Wear
Florence, Staffordshire
Hollywood, near Birmingham

and many more in England alone.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 07 March 22 11:38 GMT (UK)
   I can't at the moment think of any foreign placenames round here, though there may be some tucked away. I suspect many of those mentioned are 19th century urban developments?
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Monday 07 March 22 12:58 GMT (UK)
Liverpool has an Islington and a Kensington.

Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Viktoria on Monday 07 March 22 13:07 GMT (UK)
There is a Nazareth in Flanders,near Gent,and a Bethlehem in Wales.

Viktoria.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: andrewalston on Tuesday 08 March 22 10:42 GMT (UK)
There are also place names which were intended to confuse for commercial purposes, such as Dresden, which is a part of Stoke-on-Trent.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Viktoria on Tuesday 08 March 22 13:35 GMT (UK)
That could be handy,China stamped “Dresden “ might be mistaken for the genuine article !
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: patmo on Tuesday 08 March 22 14:49 GMT (UK)
Not too mention the number of Stratfords around the world!!! :o
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 08 March 22 21:11 GMT (UK)
I was looking at a map of the England/Wales border tonight and spotted Botany Bay, with Barbadoes only a couple of miles away  :)
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 08 March 22 21:32 GMT (UK)
A 4 x grt uncle of mine  (Thomas Burgess)  named Bala, Muskokas, Ontario after Bala, Wales.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: DianaCanada on Friday 11 March 22 01:43 GMT (UK)
There is a London, Ontario, Canada. So anyone born there will be a Londoner. Canada style.

I live in London, Ontario.  Not born here though.  The river running through it is the Thames, and our county is Middlesex.  Parts of the city are called Westminster and Lambeth.  The city of Windsor is west of us and Stratford is to the east.
The local hockey team is the Lunnonites…actually the London Knights, but that is the local pronunciation. 
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: a chesters on Friday 11 March 22 05:27 GMT (UK)
Years ago, when OH and I were on a holiday trip, we stayed at Kingston in South Australia twice.

Once was in the Riverland district, not far from the Victorian border.

The other one was on the coast, south of Victor Harbor

The first one is correctly Kingston on Murray, and the second one is Kingston SE, or South East.

Very confusing when referring to them in the book or on photos :P ::)
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: andrewalston on Friday 11 March 22 09:13 GMT (UK)
There are plenty of multiple occurrences of place names in the same area.

I live not far from Eccleston in Lancashire. The origin of the name is quite simple - a settlement with a church - so it is easy to see why Lancashire also has an Eccleston in Prescot, and a Great Eccleston and Little Eccleston in the Fylde.

Hale, Lancashire, Hale, Westmorland and Hale, Cheshire cause confusion in Ancestry's searches.

Close to Runcorn in Cheshire is the town of Halton. Across the Mersey, only a couple of miles away, part of Widnes is also called Halton. With reorganisations, both these places are now under the same  local government.  ;D
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: DianaCanada on Friday 11 March 22 11:57 GMT (UK)
There are quite a few places in Canada with the name Richmond (something to do with the Duke of Richmond in the early 1800’s): Richmond, Quebec; New Richmond, Quebec: Richmond, Ont., Richmond Hill, Ont., and Richmond, BC.  There are probably more, those are the ones I can think of.
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: coombs on Friday 11 March 22 21:41 GMT (UK)
There is also a New York in Lincolnshire.

Ella Fitzgerald would have to sing "We'll take Coningsby, Dogdyke and Gipsey Bridge too".
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Llwyd on Friday 01 April 22 21:29 BST (UK)
Dublin is in the Flintshire village of Northop Hall which is called in Welsh, despite Wikipedia saying it is Neuadd Llaneurgain (literal translation), Pentre Moch. I leave you, dear reader, to translate.
 :)
Title: Re: Where is Wales?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 01 April 22 22:19 BST (UK)
 :-X