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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Robert Collingwood on Thursday 24 February 22 12:15 GMT (UK)
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Please can anyone help me with two 16th cent. Norwich probate clauses? Images attached. Problem is not so much the Latin, dimly remembered from schooldays 50+ years ago, but the script and those *** abbreviations.
Testator: Thomas Buttes
Date of will: 22 May 1592
Executors: Frances Astely, Richard Anger, Henry Shelton
Chancellor of Norwich: Robert Redmayne (1551-1625), Ll.D.
For the first one, what I read is something like:
Probatum fuit huiusmodi testamentum apud
Norvicum coram venerabili viro domino Roberto
Redmayno legum doctore officiali principali
Armig A**** Cancellario? Norvici C**** quinto?
die mensis Februarij Anno Domini millesimo? envs*** [et]
et Domantavonem Calendario? Anglicano millesimo? quingentesimo? [no]
nonagesimo Peermdo DormiNaos? fuit administratio bonorum
executoribus in dicto testamento nominatis in debita
juris forma juratis.
Which I understand as:
Proved was aforesaid testament at Norwich before venerable man lord Robert Redmayne of-laws doctor official principal esquire ... Chancellor of-Norwich court fifth day month February year of-our-Lord thousandth ... and ... calendar English thousandth five-hundredth ninetieth ... ... was administration of-goods to-executors in said testament named in due of-law form sworn
But the second text almost completely defeats me. All I can make out is the name of the testator, Buttes, and some months and years.
If possible I need the full Latin texts. Any help greatly appreciated.
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Here is the date plus a few words more:
...xvijo
die mensis ffebruarij Anno d(omi)ni iuxta cursum
et Computac(i)onem Eccl(es)ie Anglicane mill(esi)mo Quingen(tesi)mo
nonagesimo secundo Com(m)issaq(ue) fuit Administratio...
xvijo = seventeenth
A couple of words are misspelled - Computaconem & Comissaq(ue) - without there being a proper mark of contraction. I have added the missing letter to each.
ADDED:
iuxta.....Anglicane = according to the course and computation of the Church of England
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The date in the second probate is the same except that the die is vicesimo secundo and the writer has put a contraction mark above the second o in computaconem.
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Here is (my best shot at) more of the second probate:
...Ric(ard)u(m) [Armiger?] et Isacu(m) Asshelye
armigeros execut(ores) una cu(m) Henrico
Shelton generoso in Testamento
[sine?] ultima voluntate Thome
Butt(es) armigeri def(uncti) vicesimo...
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Line 4 of the first extract (probate) ...
Curie Cons(istorialis) Ep(iscop)alis Norvice(nsis) &c
The second document is not probate but a record that the inventory has been submitted. It has mostly been done for you, except for the first line ...
Ex(hibitu)m fuit h(uius)mo(d)i Inven(tariu)m p(er) m(agist)ros ...
and the last phrase ...
... p(ro) pleno &c sub p(ro)testac(i)one
de addendo sive diminuendo q(uo)d
si &c
... which is like an archaic equivalent of the present-day E&OE (‘errors and omissions excepted’).
ADDED
... sive ultima voluntate
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ADDED
... sive ultima voluntate
Thanks for picking this up.
So does it just mean: ...the testament or last will of... ?
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ADDED
... sive ultima voluntate
Thanks for picking this up.
So does it just mean: ...the testament or last will of... ?
Yes, exactly.
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much Horselydown86 and Bookbox for your help. I'm astonished at your skills.
So it seems I now have the complete words for both texts - except just one in the probate record: it's the penultimate word in the 4th line, between Norvice(nsis) and before xvijo. Could you possibly help me with that?
btw the 2nd word in the 2nd line of the inventory record looks like Anger, surname of the 1st executor, rather than armiger, and I think the 4th word is Frances/Francis.
Thanks again.
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So it seems I now have the complete words for both texts - except just one in the probate record: it's the penultimate word in the 4th line, between Norvice(nsis) and before xvijo. Could you possibly help me with that?
Curie Cons(istorialis) Ep(iscop)alis Norvice(nsis) Ep(iscopi) &c
... of the Episcopal Consistory Court of the Bishop of Norwich etc.
(sorry I missed the Episcopi earlier)
btw the 2nd word in the 2nd line of the inventory record looks like Anger, surname of the 1st executor, rather than armiger, and I think the 4th word is Frances/Francis.
It is not written Anger - there are too many minims. But if you already have the name from elsewhere, it may be written Annger here. Another possibility is Aunger. But there may be another letter obscured by the descender of the f from the line above.
The 4th word is Isac(um), as in reply #3. I can understand why the first letter, with a bar across, might be read as F, but it is definitely I. Compare the upper-case I in Inven(tarium) in the first line. The following letters are clearly ...sacu with a suspension above (for the final m), so I'm confident it's Isacum (= Isaac).
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Thanks Bookbox, that's really helpful. Especially the proper names in the second record. It's quite probable we mis-read the executors' names in the will itself, so we'll need to go back and look and look at them again carefully.