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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: BRUCE123 on Tuesday 22 February 22 14:53 GMT (UK)

Title: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Tuesday 22 February 22 14:53 GMT (UK)
Hi :) I have a connection with a family from Corris Talyllyn
 Help please with the ancestry of Mary Catherine Evans I think her father was a Hugh Evans  and mother Annie (Evans) Evans, both of Corris

Mary Catherine Evans B:10/6/1876 D: Oct 1935 age 19yrs she married a
Edwin Jones B: 3/4/1891, D: 5/11/1949 living at 5 Braichgoil Terrace Corris: they had 5 children. I have doc for all 5 children

I have been told that Edwin  or Mary' are connected in some way to Ellis Humphrey Evans B: 1889.
Any help would be appreciated. all the best Bruce 
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:18 GMT (UK)
I think you mean she was 59 when she died - not 19

Where did you get her full birthdate from?

If she was b 1876 - that makes her 15yrs older than Edwin who you say was b 1891 - is that correct?

You need to provide more info & tell us what research you have done yourself so we don’t duplicate

You haven’t given any details of her birthplace nor any details of when or where they married?  You say you “think” her father was Hugh - do you have a copy of her marriage cert confirming that?

No names or birthyears given for any of the 5 children you mention.

Have you checked for her birth reg on freebmd then looked on GRO online to get her mothers maiden name so you can find her parents marriage?  Freebmd birth 1876 - GRO shows mmn Jones.

With surnames like Evans & Jones you need to be careful ;D

“I have been told that Edwin or Mary”.

No birthplace given for Edwin so what research have you done yourself to establish a connection to Ellis Humphrey Evans.  Given his surname - isn’t he more likely to be connected to Edwin - possibly a brother??
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:22 GMT (UK)
If Mary Catherine married age 19, that would have been 1895 when Edwin was 4.  ::)

Possible marriage reg
Edwin Jones dec qtr 1912 Ffestiniog to Mary C Evans.
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:22 GMT (UK)
Yes I was just puzzling on the dates myself, if she married at 19 that would be 1895 and if her husband was only born 1891 that cannot be! 
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:25 GMT (UK)
Age 19 refers to her age at death in 1935 hence my comment it should be 59   ???  no marriage year given

See my reply above

Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:26 GMT (UK)
possible 1901 census for Edwin in Braichgoch Terrace

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X91S-DJM
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:26 GMT (UK)
Quote
Ellis Humphrey Evans B: 1889.

There is someone of that name born 1887 Merionethshire son of Evan & Mary who died in WW1 - is this the man you are referring to?
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:30 GMT (UK)
Ellis Humphrey’s mmn was Morris

Bruce

You need to look at these replies & clarify the info you have given.  We are looking at very common surnames & christian names here so you need to be sure of the info you are giving
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:42 GMT (UK)
There is a Dec qtr 1912 marriage in Festiniog which has Mary C Evans & Edwin Jones.

Did you get their respective birthdates from the 1921 census?  What birthplace is given for each of them?

Did you check the 1881 census for Mary Catherine Evans?  If so - you would know there is no entry with a father Hugh but there is one with a father David.  You need the 1912 marriage cert to clarify
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:51 GMT (UK)
Ellis Humphrey Evans (Hedd Wyn) did have a younger sister Mary, but a plain Mary, no middle name.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TYW-LZM
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 22 February 22 15:56 GMT (UK)
Where did you get a 1935 death from?  No Mary C Jones death in Merionethshire in 1935 & no death for a Mary Jones that matches a 1876 birthyear
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 22 February 22 16:00 GMT (UK)
Presumably the death for Edwin that you refer to but he is obviously not the one that married in 1912
Death Dec qtr 1949   
Jones    Edwin   age 59    Merioneth S.    8c   22
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 22 February 22 16:15 GMT (UK)
Also - if he was b 3.4.1891 & died 1949 as you say - where is he on the 1939 register as there is no Edwin Jones with that birthdate
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Tuesday 22 February 22 19:00 GMT (UK)
Hi CaroleW, Rosie99, osprey, milliepede, Thank you all, I will take all your points and get back to you. Thank you.
Bruce
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: DCB on Wednesday 23 February 22 12:57 GMT (UK)
There are some trees on Ancestry with slightly different names

Mary Catherline Evans 1876-1935
Edwin Jones 1891 1949

Children:-
Margaret (Maggie) 1913-2007
Eirlys 1914-1976
Richard Edmund 1916-1976
Hedd Win 1923-1992
Sarah Enid 1925-1938

Eurlys Jones mmn Evans Q4 1914 Dolgelly
Hedy W Jones mmn Evans Q3 1923 Dolgelley
Sarah E Jones mmn Evans Q1 1925 Dolgelley

Mother aged 49 when last child born

David
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 23 February 22 15:18 GMT (UK)
DCB

See replies 10 & 12.  There are a number of details that don't add up here & with names like Jones & Evans it's too easy to go down the wrong path.

Bruce needs to start with the 1912 marriage cert to establish Mary C's fathers name.  Was she a spinster or previously married given the 15yr age gap etc etc

No birthplaces given for either

1911 has a widowed Mary Evans aged 34 living in Dolgelly

Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Wednesday 23 February 22 15:48 GMT (UK)
Hi All, :) sorry for the delay getting back to you, Thank you for the time you have spent, I hope I have answered you Questions, on this family Mary Catherine Evans
Evan Evans B:3/9/1852 Trawsfynydd Merionethshire wife Mary (Evans) Morris B: 22 Aug 1864 Trawsfynydd
1901cen Evan Evans 47, wife Mary Evans 36,( Ellis H Evans 14,B:1887 D: WW1, I have Army records, ) Davids Evans 12, Robert Llewelyn Evan 2,
 Mary Evans 11,Kate Evans 9, Maggie Evans 5,and brother Robert Evans    42,1858. all the children B:Trawsfynydd
1911cen Evan Evans 57yrs job Farmer wife Mary 46yrs mar 23yrs12Ch9L3D
Ellis H 24yrs,1887, Maggie 15yrs  1896, Robert H 12yrs, 1899, Evan M 9yrs, 1902, Ann 7yrs, 1904, Emia 4yrs.1907.
1939cen Evan Evans ret: Farmer wife Mary off Ysgwrn Farm Robert Ll Evans,1896, Evan M Evans, 1901.
Anne Evans 1904 mar: Ivor Williams. No info on this
Evan M Evans D: 1984 83yrs.  Robert LL Evans D: 1977 78yrs. from grave stone.
this is all I have on the Evan Evans family todate.
............................................
  First the Children of Edwin Jones and Mary Catherin Evans 
Maraget Jones 1913  date from birthday book Mar: Edward E Jones B: 01/1/1892 D: 1967 mar:  03/12/1934.BMD:
Eirlys Jones 1914 My mother-in-Law Birth cert: gives F: as Edwin Jones Occ: Slate Miner M: Mary Catherine Jones nee Evans
Richard Edmund Jones 1916 birth cert gives F: and M: the same as above
 Hedd Wyn Jones 1923   birth cert gives F: and M: the same as above
Sarah Enid Jones 1925  birth cert gives F: and M: the same as above
*************
The 1901 gives us Edwin B: in Corris Coch Talyllyn.He is age 10yrs. BMD mar: gives us 1912 .Mary Catherline Evans

1901:
Richard Jones   37 1864 Dylife, Monmouthshire,
Catherine Jones   32  Corris Coch 1869
John D Jones   14  1887  Corris Coch
Catherine Jones   12   1889  Corris
Edwin Jones   10   1891  Corris Coch
Mary Jones   9      1892  Corris
Sarah A Jones   4      1897   Corris
Margaret J Jones   1  1900  Corris
***************************
Mary Catherin Evans,  the info on her, is wrong I got mix up with another family member, Sorry. I know she was younger then Edwin and died not long after the last child, the children then had a step-mother called Annie E Evans. I have a photo of her, that's all.
I have a birth cert for a Mary Ellen B: 12/6/1886 Upper Corris. F: Hugh Evans job, Slate Quarrier. M: Annie Evans nee Evans How this fits in I don't know yet.
Thank you for your help. Bruce

Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 23 February 22 16:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Bruce

I have asked the moderator for advice on whether this post should be locked & you open a new thread with correct information

Your last reply has only added to the confusion and a lot of time & effort has already been wasted because of incorrect info

If the 1912 marriage is the correct one -  I would strongly recommend that before posting again you buy a copy of that marriage cert to establish their ages & fathers names.  If it is not the right marriage then you need to determine which one is

www.freebmd.org.uk

I also suggest you look at the 1921 census for whichever is the right family & ensure you give correct birthyears

You need to look for Mary's death on freebmd & Edwin's remarriage to "Annie E"

It is impossible to determine who you have the "connection" to so that needs to be made clearer in any future post
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: DCB on Wednesday 23 February 22 16:34 GMT (UK)
The tree that I referred to is Bruce's and I think the main thing that is incorrect is Mary's birth date and middle name.

There is a Mary Catherine Evans in Ffestiniog of the right age (19), but daughter of John and Mary nee Jones. She is on the 1901-11 censuses.

The marriage in 1912 is the right date, given the dates for the children, and the certificate would clarify matters either way.

David
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 23 February 22 19:18 GMT (UK)
Awaiting advice from moderator re locking/new post as per my earlier reply.  I think it may be best if no further info is posted until that decision is made
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 23 February 22 19:29 GMT (UK)
Sorry, CaroleW, I was typing this up & checking info when you posted.

The eldest son of Edwin & Mary is Richard Edmund, Richard after Edwin's father so I wonder if Mary's father was called Edmund?

possible in 1891 in Trawsfynydd
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TYR-LN2

1901 Edmund has remarried march qtr 1894 to Mary Owen who was in the household in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TYR-LN2

1911 Mary back in the household, Edmund's occupation should be amaethwr - farmer.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JD-RRC

If this is the correct family, Edmund's first marriage was to Margaret Thomas june qtr 1884. It won't be online as it was in a Baptist Church
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3422127/3422135/78/ 

Using the free index on the 1921 census, Eirlys Jones b. 1914 is in the same household in Trawsfynydd as an Edmund Evans b. 1852.
 
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: nestagj on Thursday 24 February 22 09:12 GMT (UK)
I agree that the OP needs to start with the 1912 marriage and 1921?census to confirm those facts first.   
I have traced a friends family story back to Hedd Wyn and their link was through marriage and it was hard !   There are so many incorrect trees for them and so many descendants.     It is impossible to work down from the family as there are so many it is much easier to work up the tree.
It can be so easy at times to look at the data and see what you want it to say with such common names rather than do a diligent search confirming as you go on.   
Nesta
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Thursday 24 February 22 11:26 GMT (UK)
Hi nestagj  :) Thank you! I await the mar: record from GRO. the 21cen for Edwin 1891 was no help, It only told me that  the wife and children were not at home, and Edwin was out of work.  all the best bruce
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: osprey on Thursday 24 February 22 19:41 GMT (UK)
if you look for the wife and children in 1921, you may find they are with relatives. Try searching on an unusual name, like Eirlys.
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Friday 25 February 22 12:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Osprey Thank you Bruce
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Wednesday 09 March 22 10:00 GMT (UK)
Hi all  :) I have the said mar: for Edwin Jones and  Mary Catherine Evans dated 16/11/1912
Mary's Father " Edmund Evans job Farmer, the wedding register Portmadoc. The address   Ffestiniog Trawsfynydd, The address living before Marriage, looks like Muriau Trawsfynydd , this address is the same as Edmund Evans 1850 brother to Evan Evans 1852 father to Ellis Humphrey Evans. It is a safe bet that Mary Evans 1885 is my Mary Catherine of 1884. :)

Can one tell me is "Muriau" Trawsfynydd  a street name or a farm name I cant find it!! :)
All the best Bruce.

Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 09 March 22 10:28 GMT (UK)
Quote
Can one tell me is "Muriau" Trawsfynydd  a street name or a farm name I cant find it!!


Just to the south

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map?x=269488&y=334286&z=115&sv=269488,334286&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map&searchp=ids&dn=821&ax=269488&ay=334286&lm=0

PS - they look like farms to me - a higher one (no uchaf though) and a lower one  (isaf)
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 09 March 22 19:26 GMT (UK)
Glad that worked out. Just noticed I gave you the 1891 census twice and not the 1901. here is the correct one
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X913-KKB
Title: Re: Upper Corris Talyllyn Wales
Post by: BRUCE123 on Thursday 10 March 22 08:12 GMT (UK)
hi Gadget :)  thank you bruce