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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Offers => Topic started by: mallow on Monday 21 February 22 16:22 GMT (UK)
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Looking for birth information for violet Elizabeth Robson birth 1914 London looking for fathers name on birth certificate ,or fathers name on marriage cert in 1943 when she married George Badham also
In London any help appreciated
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Have you found her on the 1939 register.
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Yes have her on that one
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What was her full date of birth. There is no birth registration for a Violet E Robson on GRO in 1914.
You may have to purchase the certificate for a marriage that recent
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If she was not with her parents in 1939 --- if you have access to Find My Past you could look at the 1921 census to see if she is with her parents.
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It says on the 1939 register. Her birth date was 13 April 1914 could that be wrong
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She would not have had to prove her birth date for the register. Her death is showing 1914 as her birth year.
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Looks like a dead end Rosie I was trying to find name of her Father as nobody knows what it is in the family would it be on her marriage cert 🤞🏼
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It should be on her marriage certificate but if she was illegitimate it may not be. She could also have 'invented' a father as she would not have to prove who he was. Often witnesses to marriages are helpful.
How do you know that she was born in London, Robson is more common in the north of England.
Presumably you have not located her on the 1921 census
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You say you are after the name of her father, do you know who her mother was
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Ni Rosie no access to 1921 census
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I think there maybe a connection with the Allen’s from 1939 register Charles Henry Allen and his wife Bessie. They married 1929 Islington and her surname was Dyer.
Elsie M DYER b1919 mmn Brooker she married 1944 Islington a Dracass
London Electoral Register Islington
Charles H Allen
Bessie Allen
Elsie M Dracass
William G Robson ( son of Frederick & Bessie - he may have married Irene Large)
Irene Robson
Frederick G ROBSON
Rank: Rfn
Record Type: Card
Death Date: 15 Sep 1916
Service Number: S/18632
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Rifle Bgd.
Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description: Other Ranks Died Roder F-Roger W
Next of Kin:
Relation to Soldier
Bessie ROBSON Widow born 3 Apr 1891
Violet Elizabeth Stepchild 13 Apr
William George born 20 April 1917
William G ROBSON mmn Brooker Jun 1917 Holborn 1b 870
Bessie Brooker Age: 23
Record Type: Admission
Birth Date: 1891
Admission Date: 6 Mar 1914
Admission Place: Westminster, St Marylebone, London, England
Bessie Brooker 1890
Violet Elizabeth ditto 1914
Record Type: Discharge
Discharge Date: 7 May 1914
Discharge Place: London, England, Westminster, St Marylebone
Violet Elizabeth BROOKER no mothers maiden name -
GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in ST. MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 928
Frederick George Robson age 30
Marriage Date: 9 Jul 1916 Holy Trinity, Dalston
Father: George William Robson
Spouse: Bessie BROOKER age 25 Father Frank
Mar 1918
Dyer William A Robson Islington 1b 644
ROBSON Bessie Dyer Islington 1b 644
Sep 1929
DYER Bessie
Allen Charles H Islington 1b 712
Bessie ALLEN Age: 80
Birth 3 Apr 1891
Registration Date: Jul 1971
Registration District: Barnet Volume: 5a Page: 178
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Ladyhawk, Great research, just to add that the 1921 census has Violet Elizabeth Dyer living in Islington with a William Allen Dyer and Bessie and 2 siblings.
John
Added, birth of a half siblings? as per 1921 census
Births Sep 1919
Dyer Elsie May mmn Brooker Islington 1b 266
Births Jun 1917
Robson William George mmn Brooker Holborn 1b 870
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Ni Rosie no access to 1921 census
It is possible to do free searches to that census on FindMyPast :). As we all have to pay extra for getting the full information then you can find out as much as we can before we have to pay to see the record :)
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just to add that the 1921 census has Violet Elizabeth Dyer living in Islington with a William Allen Dyer and Bessie and 2 siblings.
Well found John I had been looking under surname Brooker
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Elsie May Dyer born 12.8.1919
1st Marriage to Stanley R Dracass jq 1944 Islington (no children appearing on freebmd)
2nd marriage to Leonard J Cleeve dq 1953 Wood Green (recorded as both Dyer & Dracass)
Death
Name: Elsie May Cleeve
Death Age: 64
Birth Date: 12 Aug 1919
Registration Date: Jan 1984
Registration District: Harlow
Inferred County: Essex, Middlesex
Volume: 9
Page: 2776
John
Added, looks as though Elsie and Stanley went their own ways as he re-marries Joan A Oakley in 1952 Barnet and he died
Name: Stanley Richard Dracass
Death Age: 81
Birth Date: 14 Jun 1920
Registration Date: Jan 2002
Registration District: Hatfield
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Register Number: B46C
District and Subdistrict: 5321B
Entry Number: 63
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Bessie Brooker Age: 23
Record Type: Admission
Admission Date: 6 Mar 1914
Admission Place: Westminster, St Marylebone, London, England
Bessie Brooker 1890
Violet Elizabeth ditto 1914
Record Type: Discharge
Discharge Date: 7 May 1914
Discharge Place: London, England, Westminster, St Marylebone
Violet Elizabeth BROOKER no mothers maiden name -
GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in ST. MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 928
I forgot to add that these Workhouse records can be found on Anc*y - London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
I was going to add image of the two entries just in case you didn't have access, as this post is on the lookup board an image cannot be added.
On Bessie BROOKER admission in 1914 it gives her occupation as Barmaid and reason for admission Dest. & pregnant and on their discharge 1914 it was at "Own Request"
ADDED
On her marriage to Frederick George ROBSON it looks to me as if her father is named FRANK Brooker, deceased, labourer but on this baptism record her father is named JOHN :-\
Bessie dob matches that given on the WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers posted
Bessie BROOKER birth 3 Apr 1891
Baptism 31 May 1891 Farnborough, St Peter, Surrey
Father: John Brooker, Gardener Mother: Elizabeth
abode The Oaks, Farnborough
John not with Elizabeth & Bessie 1891
The Oaks
John Brooker. Age: 26 M occ Gardener
Relationship: Servant
Birth Place: Cove, Hampshire
Civil parish: Farnborough
Registration district: Hartley Wintney
Piece: 954 Folio: 7
Edit to add this looks as if it could be Bessie's birth entry
Bessie BROOKER mmn WOOD
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in HARTLEY WINTNEY Volume 02C Page 184
and her parents marriage
24 May 1890 Farnborough, St Peter, Surrey
John BROOKER age 26 occ Gardener
father James, labourer
Elizabeth WOOD 26
father Thomas, carpenter
Looks as if Elizabeth Brooker is with her parents on 1891 census in Wood Heath transcribed as WOOD - originals reads Brooker Piece: 955 Folio: 18
Thomas Wood 66 Head occ Carpenter
Mary Wood 64 Wife
George Wood30 Son
Elizabeth Wood 27 Daughter 'M' Cove, Hampshire
Harriet Wood 31 Daughter 'M'
Percy F Wood 2 Grandson
Edith A Wood 9/12 Granddaughter
Wood 3 Days Granddaughter
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What amazing research Ladyhawk and John.
To say 'Very well done', seems an understatement.
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On this occasion as on many other's my good friend Ladyhawk needs to take credit for her research, but well done to all other's who contributed.
John
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Well done Ladyhawk, once again some excellent research ;D
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Thank you Pennines, John & Rosie for your kind words :)
When I gave details from London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 I didn't give any addresses
Years 1919/20/1921/1926
Address 51 Nicholay Road N.19
Bessie DYER
William Allen DYER
Also at same address
Alfred & Florence Marion SMITH
See John & Rosie’s replies 12&13 re: 1921 census
If you use the advanced search and just input
surname DYER
address 51 Nicholay Road
it lists 5 persons with surname DYER living at that address in Islington
In advanced search if you just input only the address 51 Nicholay Road it shows a further 6 people with surname SMITH
London Electoral Register Islington Year 1929 same address as above
Bessie DYER & Alfred & Florence Marion SMITH
Year 1930/32 same address as above
Bessie surname is now ALLEN
Year 1939
Address 48 Nicholay Road
Bessie, Charles Allen & William George Robson
Year 1946
address 138 St John’s Way
Allen’s, Dracoss, Robson’s, Dyer & Keohane
It would seem that Florence Marion Smith was nee DYER and she and Alfred are living at 51 Nicholay Road in 1911, they married 25 Dec 1907 St Stephen, Islington
Florence Marrian DYER 23 Father: William Dyer, occ Tailor
Alfred Smith 24 father Alfred
Witnesses William Allen DYER & Frances DYER
1891 Piece: 1061 Folio: 74
William A Dyer 42 Head, Kings Lynn Norfolk occ Tailor's manager
Elizabeth Dyer 42 Wife
Harry Dyer19 Son
Charles Dyer 15 Son
Richard Dyer 13 Son
Marrion Dyer 7 Daughter Highgate, London
For info.
1901 census Bessie Brooker is with her widowed Grandmother Mary Wood
Piece: 1104 Folio: 27 Page Number: 16
Mary WOOD 75
George Wood son 40
Elizabeth BROOKER granddaughter 9 Cove Hampshire
Bessie BROOKER Servant 21 , Cove Hampshire occ Cook
1911c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWG9-Z6Y
not shown Head Harry C T Carter occ Licensed Victualler
It looks as if Bessie's mother Elizabeth died at a young age
Elizabeth Brooker age 28
Registration Mar 1892 Christchurch, Hampshire, Volume: 2b Page: 690
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Thank you so much for all that fantastic research ,sorry about late reply it’s always a shock finding out things different to what you had , it will take some time to digest all that simply awesome findings thank you again ,just have to make out chart now 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
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mallow - do you have access to Anc*y?
The previous record for the pension of Bessie's husband is on Fold3 unfortunately you need a sub to view details (sorry I don't have one).
I have however just found this record which can be viewed on Anc*y
Frederick George Robson
Enlistment Age: 30 occ Licensed Victualler Manager
Marriage Date: 9 Jul 1916
Marriage Place: Holy Trimity London
Document Date: 1915
Residence Place: 18 High Street, Kingsland
Military Date: 1915
Relationship to Soldier: Self (Head)
Regimental Number: 18632
Regiment Name: Rb
Number of Images: 37
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Bessie Brooke Spouse
Frederick Robson Child
William George Robson Child
Just in case you don't have access here are a few snippets
On Frederick’s Army record despatch of medal dated 29 8 21
to Mrs B DYER address 51 Nicholay Road London
They had a son who died age 6 months death certificate registered 6 Sept 1916
Frederick Henry Robson died 1 Aug 1916 Shoreditch Infirmary,
mother B Robson informant, Kingsland Road, Shoreditch
On the form for statement of names & addresses of ALL relatives of deceased
Frederick George ROBSON list as follows:-
Widow
Bessie DYER address 51 Nicholay Road
Children
Violet Elizabeth 13/4/1914
William George 22/4/1917
Parents of soldier
George Robson & Ada,
Address 108 Wethersfield Rd Haverhill
Full blood siblings
Dorothy 28, Kathleen 10, William 30, Harry 26
Signature on Declaration Bessie DYER dated 3rd June 1919
Letter from Bessie informing of her change of address and of her remarriage
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Thank you so much for all that fantastic research ,sorry about late reply it’s always a shock finding out things different to what you had , it will take some time to digest all that simply awesome findings thank you again
You are very welcome :)
Edit to add
I forgot to add this entry from London Electoral Register
Years 1935/1936*
Address 48 Nicholay Road
Alfred Allen (* no Alfred)
BESSIE ALLEN
Charles Henry Allen
Henry Allen Jun.
Henry Allen Snr.
VIOLET ROBSON
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Just to add , Elizabeth Wood born dq 1863 has a mothers maiden name of Nash, daughter of Thomas and Mary. Elizabeth and 2 siblings Frank & George were together baptised 7.3.1869 Aldershot. Her brother William Thomas Wood was baptised 5.10.1856, and her sister Mary 12.10.1862. All have parents Thomas/Mary with occupation Carpenter. Can only find banns of possible marriage of Thomas Wood/Mary Nash 13.5.1855 St Martin in the Fields.
John
added
1851 census for Thomas Wood ref 1492 115 17 Carpenter born Notts--- Hampstead
1851 census for Mary Nash ref 1492 166 15 Cook born Cannonpyon Herefordshire --- Hampstead
baptism of Mary Nash
Name: Mary Nash
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 24 Jul 1826
Baptism Place: Canon Pyon,Hereford,England
Father:
James Nash
Mother:
Susanna
death of Mary Wood
Name: Mary Wood
Gender: Female
Death Date: abt 1906
Burial Date: 9 Feb 1906
Burial Place: Cove, Hampshire, England
Death of Thomas Wood
Name: Thomas Wood
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Death Registration Place: Hartley Wintney, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Death Date: Jun 1894
Inferred Death Place: Hampshire, United Kingdom
Volume: 2c
Page: 105
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O my God you are fantastic 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾Names I never knew existed,just goes to show when you ask an expert what they find is amazing I will have to digest all that now thank you so much again for all your research 🥰
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This is for anyone with a knowledge of how to go about finding results of inquest it concerns one Louisa Badham who died 9th October 1942 of accident in London Colney the inquest was held 13th October 1942 st Albans district any help appreciated as to where to apply thank you 🤞🏼
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Louisa Badham who died 9th October 1942 of accident in London Colney
the inquest was held 13th October 1942 st Albans district
Don't know if this might help http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rcr/
Coroner's records may contain inquest papers, post mortem reports, sudden death files and other case papers - St Albans, 1939; 1942 – 1945; 1952-1974
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Thank you ladyhawk but nothing comes up there for Badham I know there was an inquest as I have death cert 🙏
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Thank you ladyhawk but nothing comes up there for Badham I know there was an inquest as I have death cert 🙏
The earliest records are indexed on Hertfordshire Names Online and date from 1827 to 1933 the record you are looking for in 1942 so it wouldn't show
Click on Contact us about Coroner’s records in the archive and hopefully you should be able to send them an email.
EDIT to add
Have you checked local newspapers to see if there's anything mentioned there?
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How would I check papers sorry to sound so ignorant but I live in Ireland 🇮🇪 no knowledge of English papers
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Thank you for that about archives I have sent request to them 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
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How would I check papers sorry to sound so ignorant but I live in Ireland 🇮🇪 no knowledge of English papers
You can search BNA, it is a subscription site but you can view 3 pages free when you register to help you get started https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
Newspaper and periodicals are also available on F M P if you have a subscription - I had a look on F M P and BNA site but I didn't find an entry for Louisa Badham year 1942 ???
Thank you for that about archives I have sent request to them 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
Let us know how you get on
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What an interesting story .
Well done finding all is violet Elizabeths step father's
DNA would be interesting to find descendants of her half siblings but also maybe to turn up the birth father
There is a small chance that Bessie BROOKER
Took the putative father to court
In which case you could look for an affiliation order held in local record offices but if she was destitute in 1914 she either didn't do this or failed in her appeal .
Good luck ....looking forward to hearing more !
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Thank you so much for all your interest in story it is quite fascinating and takes time to digest , I will let you know how I get on with inquest request , and thank you for checking papers.👏🏾
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Hi all, no luck with Hertfordshire archives regarding inquest on Louisa Badham they have no record it’s a shame as it would have helped to learn more about the accident 🤔