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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: rakpat on Saturday 19 February 22 16:52 GMT (UK)
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I am related to the Needham Brothers family who had a foundry in Barnsley, started in Sheffield by John Needham (b1820). Could anyone help answer the question as to whether he had 2 families? I have found Harriet from whom I am descended with John, but then found John with Sarah at around the same time with many children - mainly girls! Is this the same John?
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Can you expand on the info please?
1871 has a John Needham 51 occ moulder b Sheffield. Wife Harriet 51 b Rotherham
Is that the entry you are referring to?
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That 1871 entry has a son Charles aged 22. Charles birth reg has mmn Twiby??
John Needham married Harriet Turbey March qtr 1841 Sheffield
Is this the family you are following?
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1861 has Harriet married with 3 sons shown as an iron moulders wife. John not in household
Eldest son Frank b 1844 - mmn Twiby
No birth reg for son Harry b 1853/54
Where did you find John with Sarah? Please give Sarah’s birthyear & birthplace & names etc of the children you found
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Anc has Harriet mistranscribed in 1851;
John Nieeham 31 Iron Moulder
Hannah Nieeham 32
William Nieeham 9
George Nieeham 8
Frank Nieeham 7
Charles Nieeham 2
Rose Minon 15
Anna Trevers 20
And again her maiden name;
NEEDHAM, HARRY mmn SWIBY
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in OF ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 203
NEEDHAM, GEORGE mmn TWIBY
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 22 Page 506
Trish :)
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In 1871 Anc has a Rhoda Needham born 1849 as the Daughter of John/Harriet.
She is their Daughter in Law, Wife of Charles.
Married 1870, Rhodas maiden name Bell
+ Son born before Marriage;
BELL, GEORGE HARRY -
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION Volume 09C Page 149
1841 in Sheffield we have;
John Needham 20 Moulder
Harriot Needham 20
So as CaroleW stated 1841 Marriage is correct
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John Needham (b.1820) was married to Harriet (Turbey?) (b.1819) on1841 Census.
On 1851 Census he was with Harriet and had 4 sons, William, George, Frank, Charles at Wellington St., Sheffield.
On 1861 Census it looks like John was with Sarah Needham (b.1823) at Weight Lane, Sheffield with the following children: Emma, Anne, Joseph, Mary, Mirah, Leach?, Sarah, Eliza. Harriet was listed as living alone at 16 Summer Lane, Barnsley with Frank, Charles and Harry (my g g grandfather).
On 1871 Census John was with Harriet at 67 Summer St., Barnsley with Charles, Rhode (sister-in-law), Harry and Edward, (a grandson b. 1869?). Sarah seems to have been back in Sheffield at 403 Glossop Road, but only two of the children, Mary and Sarah, seem to be the same, but curiously a John J (b.1846) is listed as being a son! I can't trace the girls previously listed.
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That info you give above shows a John & LEAH Needham - not Sarah. No occupation shown for John.
Did you look back for the family in 1851?
If you had - you would have found he was a miner & is with the family in 1851 so not your John
Needham
1861
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7L8-XPN
1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPM3-XHX
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I used a master search on The Geologist website, where I am a member, and it clearly lists on the 1861 census John Needham b1819
Sarah Needham b1823
Emma 1843
Anne 1845
Joseph 1850
Mary 1852
Mirah 1854
Leach 1856
Sarah 1858
Eliza 1860
Living at Weight Lane, Sheffield. The other family you mentioned, Carole, isn't the same family.
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Harry Needham was born in 1854 according to 1871 Census so Rhode couldn't have been his mother as she was born in 1849. He is listed as son in law, which is strange as John and Harriet didn't have a daughter according to my records?
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Transcriptions are not always reliable - you need to look at the actual image
See reply 5 re Rhoda etc
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In 1851 I don't think he was listed as being with Sarah.
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Have you read the replies? You have the wrong John Needham in 1861. His wife is Leah - not Sarah. The website you have used have incorrectly transcribed her name. Look at the links to the 1851 & 1861 entries I posted for you - John was a miner.
Your John is not with Harriet & family in 1861 - I don't know where he is but he is NOT the 1861 entry you found
Have you read reply 5 now? Rhoda was the wife of John & Harriet's son Charles & Harry was Rhoda's illegitimate son born before she married Charles.
EDIT
Should read George H was her illegitimate son
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The last reply is not possible due to the ages of Rhode and Harry!
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Your info regarding the name Leah looks correct. When I looked at the original transcript the name looks more like Leah than Sarah. That has answered one question. Now I have to sort out details around Harry Needham (b. 1854)! ???
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Have edited my reply above
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From the Sheffield Indexers website:
NEEDHAM, John (Bachelor, age 21, Moulder, residing at Queen St).
Married Harriet TWIBEY, on February 2, 1841, by John Gibson (Banns) at
Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street,Sheffield. Father's name is Geo Needham (Moulder).
Married in the presence of Matthew Needham (mark),J Hudson.
Notes: Bride signed with a mark.
Page No: 184 Reg No: 368
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And, proving the different occupation:
NEEDHAM, John (Bachelor, age 21, Collier, residing at Deep Pit).
Married Leah MYCOCK, on November 28, 1839, by John Gibson (Banns) at
Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield. Father's name is Thos Needham (Collier).
Married in the presence of Geo Pollard (mark),J Hudson.
Notes: Bride and Groom signed with a mark.
Page No: 147 Reg No: 294
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Thank you all for taking the trouble to try to help me with my search. I have now established that the person I thought was Sarah was actually Leah, married to a man with the name John who was a miner. Someone called "Big Bazza" from Wales investigated some of this several years ago now and raised his concerns about Sarah. He is descended from the same family. I don't know if he still uses this site. So it looks like I now need to try to unravel the Rhode/Harry/George mystery! ::) ???
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If you look at the original page of the 1871 census it clearly shows Rhoda as D-in law, not daughter (so has been wrongly transcribed) listed immediately after husband Charles. Then comes Harry - shown as son i.e. since relationships are to the head of the household, Harry is son to John and Harriet - this has already been proved - birth Jun.qtr.1853 Ecclesall Bierlow, mmn Swiby (should of course be Twiby) as shown on GRO's own index.
George H. 2 is correctly shown as 'grandson' to John and Harriet BUT was born the year before his parents Charles and Rhoda (nee Bell) married in 1870. Again, as already mentioned, his birth is registered as George Harry Bell in Mar.qtr.1869 Barnsley.
So, there is no mystery! Rhoda was wife of John and Harriet's son Charles, George Harry was their son who was born the year before they married so registered as 'Bell' and Harry was the son of John and Harriet.
Don't know how to make it any clearer for you.
Annette
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Thanks for your information, which is very clear. What has thrown me is this illegitimate child of Rhode. On the site that I use he is listed as Edward (b1869) Grandson. When I looked carefully at the original his name is George H, Grandson. Possibly the site which I use doesn't give as much info. as some of the others. :)
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You always need to look at the original image to ensure the transcription is correct. Some of the images are faded or the enumerators handwriting leaves a lot to be desired.
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Yes, thank you Carole. This search has proved that. I am grateful for your help and advice!
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Thank you CarolW for summarising all of that info for rakpat.
And I'm happy you now understand all that was posted for you rakpat.
All the best,
Trish :)