(Nonsensical reply cancelled).Possibly contact a mod? Apologies if my post was confusing :-\. I think it confirms what most of us have suspected which is that DNA testing is most popular in America, but by what degree it is more popular and thus the greater number of average matches a person has to work with might be a surprise to some people (it was to me).
Is there any way of deleting a post?
No apology necessary: the nonsensical reply referred to was a reply from me to your original post. After I posted it I realised it had a logical flaw and tried to delete it, but found I could only modify it, to what eventually appeared. (My reply wondered whether the numbers you saw were simply a reflection of each country's population).Oh I see, yes, I originally thought that too, big country, more relatives, but that doesn't really follow :). It is probably true that certain types of families were large, rural farming families, Mormons etc., but in my own family in Victorian times many families had 12 children+. As far as I know neither of my American samples have Mormon ancestry.
I was wondering what you are defining as matches.Oh, I forgot about the 4th cousin or closer figure, that would have been a much easier way to compare ::) ;D. I originally manually counted down to 30cM (inclusive) for all the matches. All the matches had long standing ancestry of at least 120 years in those respective countries for most of their lines. Redoing my original survey using the 4th cousin or closer amounts, this is what I get
Using Ancestry from the UK my wife and I respectively have 268 and 387 4th cousin matches
Just a minor niggle, having used statistics for most of my working life..I know it isn't perfect Gadget ;), but it's the only figures I have to go on. If anyone has some more data to add (the 4th cousin or closer figure would be easiest) please anyone feel free to post and I'll try to periodically update the averages.
Giving an average from just 2 instances is not really necessary. I also think that 8 is a little small. Maybe just the range would suffice.
Gadget
Here goes:OK, thanks for these :), including Petros' 2 kits, UK average of Ancestry DNA 4th cousin or closer is now 448. I also have a few close American relatives, and it is true they constitute quite a few of the closest matches for one my parent's kits, but I assume when you say siblings of ancestors, you are talking about many siblings who went c. 1880s-1900s and have many descendants, who constitute many of their closest matches? Are they mainly of English or Scottish, Irish, Welsh origins?
Kit 1 - 545
Kit 2 - 619
Kit 3 - 870
Kit 4 - 466
2 and 3 are siblings.
Scots, Welsh and English from 1812 onwards. A few early 20c.The highest of my UK kits is actually my mother. She does have a lot of US matches from 50cM downward, one is a huge shared match group of over 100 down to 20cM, with at least 150 more below 20cM which also match the group. I am still not sure what links the group but admittedly I haven't studied it in huge detail. The highest matches are from an ancestral sister that emigrated to New York in the 1850s and there were several others who went to New York City. She also has several other cousins on Cornish and Sussex lines who settled in the mid West as farmers in the 1840s & 1850s probably being fairly prolific in their offspring.
Many of the Scots went first to Canada (from 1820s) and then moved about. The Welsh (from 1840s) went mainly to Pennsylvania and then spread. The 1812s ones went to NY. Fewer went to Australia/NZ and South Africa (late 19c to early 20c). My parents nearly went to Canada in the mid 1930s. Even I went to Canada in late 1960s but came back.
A wonder lust must be in the DNA
;D
PS - just remembered a Shropshire line went to Virginia in 1635
Thanks noland, very interesting :). So if I take an average of those first 3 kits, it comes to 432 4th cousins or closer for Irish kits, just a little less than the current UK average of 448, probably, as you say, reflecting a lower number of testing overall in Ireland, but a higher number of US relatives descended from the vast wave of emigration which was much higher as a percentage of the population than GB. Is kit 4 a recent arrival to the US? It is quite a bit smaller than the 1661 average I have for two US kits of people of mostly pre 1840s US settlement.
Regarding Irish users I manage 3 kits on Ancestry and can view a 4th .
The first 3 are Irish ;
Kit 1 has 355 4th cousins or closer
Kit 2 (child of kit 1 ) has 516 4th cousins or closer
Kit 3 has 426 4th cousins or closer .
Vast bulk of all matches would be US based descendants of 1850 - 1950 emigrants from Ireland .
Kit 4 is US and has 756 4th cousins or closer .
Also another kit of 795cM with American father. Note that my Kits 2 and 3 have one American grandparent.Oh, this is getting complicated ;D. When you say American father, do you mean long settled American, i.e. descended from settlers back to the 1850s or before or only one or two generations in the US? If I excluded the two kits with American grandparents (and not include this one with an American parent), the UK average would go back down to 398 . If I take your UK kit with an American parent as an honorary US kit (which I already did for a half American Canadian), the US average for 4th cousin or closer goes to 1372. If I then take the difference between that new US average and the UK average, we get an average increase of 974 matches for US kits vs UK kits. If we then surmise that having one US grandparent gives roughly 1/4 of that increase, we get 398 + 243 = 641 which isn't too different from your two kits with one US grandparent (619 + 870) :).
Also another kit of 795cM with American father.
I have 3 UK kits myself and my parents :-Thanks Richard, yes these are all closer to my original UK kit levels. If I still exclude gadget's kits with the two American grandparents, including your kits, UK average is now 379.
1. Myself - 351
2. My Father - 410
3. My Mother - 358
Now my mothers family seems to have had very little emigration that i have found, but my father family has spread around a lot of the former UK Colonies (i.e US, Canada, Australia and South Africa), so i am assuming higher numbers for him are connected to the US testers.
Richard
I have access to 17 kits.Thanks Nova :) Most seem to be roughly in line with my original Australian average of 306. Nos. 13-15 seem slightly anomalous - do they have any close American or Irish links perhaps? I thought Italians may also have a reasonably high level of matches due to such huge emigration to the US.
1. 206 Australian-German
2. 111 German
3. 394 Australian
4. 402 Australian
5. 383 Australian
6. 440 Australian
7. 291 Australian
8. 155 Australian-Hungarian
9. 137 Australian-Hungarian
10. 123 Australian
11. 359 Australian
12. 422 Australian-Italian
13. 713 English
14. 1000+ Australian
15. 605 Australian-Dutch
16. 1000+ American
17. 867 American
Dual nationality refers to the immediate parents of the tester.
In case people do not know, once you get over 1000 4th - 6th cousin matches Ancestry stops stating how many, hence 1000+. I have a way to go, as I am test kit #1.
In case people do not know, once you get over 1000 4th - 6th cousin matches Ancestry stops stating how many, hence 1000+. I have a way to go, as I am test kit #1.Actually you can get the full figure, although 1000+ is what it shows on the DNA home page. If you go into the DNA matches page, then go to filters at the top, then Shared DNA, it will give you the exact figure :).
13. Has known English-Scottish heritage mainly. Found them a surprising Aussie grandfather (but also of that Anglo-Scotch heritage). There has been some American immigration for the family group we share, but I do not know about the rest.Hmmm, interesting Nova, perhaps Scots have a raised level of US matches? Perhaps it may be true that as a % of the overall population, Scots had higher emigration to the US, than from England or Wales. Or perhaps because of the whole Scottish clan thing, they are interested in genealogy that little bit more so get tested more?? One frustration with Ancestry as opposed to MyHeritage (and actually a really useful feature of MH) is lack of the testers country, although you have to be careful as sometimes you will get British expats in unusual places :D. So it is hard to make an accurate tally of from where someone's matches most hail from - although if they have a tree it can be obvious from that, but about a 1/3 don't have any tree or private trees.
14. I do not know why this is so high for an Australian. Mainly English-Scottish heritage only gets a 7% Irish ethnicity estimate, but unsure how this fits in. Can see through swopping DNA results which (Australian-English) family groups they belong to, but not how to exactly connect the dots. The paper trail is not matching the scientific trail there.
15. Australian- English-Dutch-Slovenian-Hungarian - would be higher American immigration.
14 and 15 are related to each other.
2 more since I gave you kit 1 info, melba ;DKeep me updated and I'll do the averages again every couple of weeks ;D.
I don't know if this is confusing or not but I have my own DNA on 3 different sites and the matches are very different, both in numbers and in the apparent nationalities of the matches. I think it may not be helpful to list these but if anyone thinks it is, I will.Angela, I think I will probably keep the survey to Ancestry for consistency purposes, but I assume in general, most people will have most matches on Ancestry, then perhaps MyHeritage, followed by 23andme and LivingDNA? On Ancestry, as far as I know it is not possible to categorize by nation of residence as most people do not list it, but on MyHeritage it seems to be shown by default and you can filter by it, which is an interesting feature, especially if you have ancestry from outside GB. A lot of people of British descent seem to see an unusually high level of Scandinavian matches on MyHeritage but no one seems to quite know why. I did find someone who did a study of their matches compared to their parents which suggested a high percentage of MH matches with small largest segment were false matches.
The other annoying thing about the Ancestry declared numbers is that the figure given for "4th cousins or closer" actually, on inspection, appears to consist mainly of matches in the category of "4th to 6th cousin" when listed. ::)Not sure what you mean on this - the number I get on the main DNA page (i.e. if I click DNA at the top) matches what I then see if I click the Shared DNA filter at the top and then select the '4th cousin or closer' button?
Gadget the only blue button I see on ancestry settings is for unviewd matches and it doesn't give me the numberThanks Brigid. I am not surprised in your relatives with the high number of matches with Latvian Jewish connections and USA connections. I think Ancestry's Timber algorithm was partly developed specifically to try and limit people of Jewish descent connections, because Ashkenazi Jews are a very homogenous group, many genes are retained undivided over many generations so it appears that people are closer relatives than is in fact the case. But I suspect they also had large families but so did Catholics! If you could give me the exact number from the Shared DNA tab on the DNA match list page I can include them in my survey :).
Re stats I have access to 6 DNA
1 )My late Scottish aunt 96 percent scots 4 percent Irish has 464 matches I've 40cm
6 aunts or uncles emigrated to NZ USA Australia and Canada 1930- 50s
And there was a great uncle who went to Canada in earlier generations .
2) my mother over 1000 matches Latvian Jewish grandfather source of many matches mostly now in USA but also Mexico and a few in eastern Europe or Israel
also a Welsh JONES gfather who had over 60 grandchildren .who ended up in different parts of UK Australia New Zealand and france
3) my mum's 2nd cousin from USA cousin same Latvian ancestors
Lots of matches
4 ) my English cousin also over 1000 definitely more from our side but quite a lot on his father's side in usa some from salt lake city and going way back no idea where the connection is but suspect polygamists and big families in some descendants
5) myself 421 over 4th cousin level more from my Welsh and Latvian lines than the Scots
6 ) English woman unrelated to me 331 matches at least 40 coming from a London based gggfather who ended up in salt lake city had 3 wives and 27 children so a lot of her matches are based in USA
Also latter day saints have a tendency to test and have accurate trees because family history is part of their culture
| Country | 4C or closer | Total matches | Relationship |
| UK | 390 | 19,395 | mother |
| UK | 391 | 26,654 | sister |
| UK | 284 | 15,629 | brother |
| UK | 265 | 15,338 | me |
| UK | 615 | 21,952 | 4C1R |
| USA | 595 | 11,344 | half 2C |
| South Africa | 292 | 17,759 | predicted half 2C who turned out not to be |
| South Africa | 231 | 12,534 | father of above |
| UK | 586 | 17,123 | relationship yet to be established |
| UK | 470 | 12,645 | relationship yet to be established |
| UK | 414 | 19,278 | mother of previous two |
| New Zealand | 491 | 14,066 | relationship yet to be established |
| New Zealand | 502 | 14,331 | relationship yet to be established |
| New Zealand | 451 | 15,974 | mother of previous two |
The other annoying thing about the Ancestry declared numbers is that the figure given for "4th cousins or closer" actually, on inspection, appears to consist mainly of matches in the category of "4th to 6th cousin" when listed. ::)Not sure what you mean on this - the number I get on the main DNA page (i.e. if I click DNA at the top) matches what I then see if I click the Shared DNA filter at the top and then select the '4th cousin or closer' button?