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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: AusFamily on Friday 11 February 22 13:32 GMT (UK)
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Greetings from Australia
I'm afraid i've hit a brick wall with my 3xgreat grandfather Jesse Adams. The only definite info that I have for him is that he married Ann Liley in 1831 in Kensington St Mary Abbott, Middlesex; He had two children Ann (1832-1833) and Henry (1834-1909), both born in Notting Hill. Ann's burial entry gives place of death as The Potteries, Gravelpits (Notting Hill). Ann Liley (mother) was born 1809 1811 in Chelsea. Jesse is described as a "Tile Maker" on both Ann & Henry's baptism entries and living in Notting Hill. I cannot find the family on any England census forms, until Henry pops up in Islington in 1871 (birthplace Notting Hill), by that stage married. Henry married Anne Roberts in 1853 in Poplar, London, who later called herself Anna or Emma on the census forms.
Henry gives his father's name as Jesse on the marriage cert and his (Henry's) residential address in Poplar. Henry's father was not a witness to the wedding, as he married a Catholic, in a Catholic church. Henry's father married in an Anglican church.
A relative tells me that Anne came and worked with the Adams' as she came from a pottery family herself and Henry took her for his bride, which was frowned upon.
My relatives have always said the family is related to the Adams pottery family of Staffordshire somehow, but with Jesse I have hit a brick wall. Did Jesse come from Staffordshire originally or was he born in Middlesex? I found a couple of candidates for Jesse's birth on findmypast.com, but its hard to know, without a more definite DOB which one he is.
any tips where to look would be appreciated
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The only possible baptisms I can find for Jesse Adams are; Jessy Adams -Holborn London, 26/2/1809 parents William Adams and Mary. The other is St Mary Magdalene Church, Monkton, Kent. 19/6/1808. Parents Jesse Adams and Esther.
Regards.
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The only possible baptisms I can find for Jesse Adams are; Jessy Adams -Holborn London, 26/2/1809 parents William Adams and Mary. The other is St Mary Magdalene Church, Monkton, Kent. 19/6/1808. Parents Jesse Adams and Esther.
Regards.
Thanks paco,
Rosie99 had been helping me with this. She pointed out that the 1809 birth you mention was in Gray's Inn Lane https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857000.63 reply #69 , which was a posh institution connected to the legal profession. I'm not so sure there was any connection to Kent. I saw that one also. The one born in Monkton shows as an agricultural labourer on the 1841 census. So this one really is a mystery!
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Hi
There is a death for Jesse Adams registered in Kensington Sep 1870 age 60 years which may be worth a look.
Ciderdrinker
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Hi
There is a death for Jesse Adams registered in Kensington Sep 1870 age 60 years which may be worth a look.
Ciderdrinker
Hi Ciderdrinker
Yes, I got his death cert today. He died age 70, occ. TILE MAKER, Witness to the death was "L Adams", who may be a sibling or a child. Address at death: 1 St Anns Rd Notting Hill.
It must be him. no details of spouse or children on cert
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Just posting additional information that I have already passed to you by PM
There is a marriage certificate on Ancestry 5th May 1863 for a Georgina James/Jenner and Jesse Adams - he is age 49 -Widower- Occ Modeller. Father William Adams (deceased) Brick Merchant - Jesse's Abode 10 Pond Place, Chelsea.
In 1871 Georgina is a widow living in St Anns Road RG10 Piece 40 f38 p67. Born possibly Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
1861 possibly the same couple though they say they are married
John Adams age 50 - Moulder(?) of figures - born St Pancras
Georgina Adams age 31 born Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
RG9 piece 27 folio 89 page 20 (Fulham)
......
ADDED. If this is your Jesse then his marriage names his father as William. The baptism at Holborn with parents William and Elizabeth states that Jessy was 'Daughter' but it could be an error
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ADDED. If this is your Jesse then his marriage names his father as William. The baptism at Holborn with parents William and Elizabeth states that Jessy was 'Daughter' but it could be an error
cheers Rosie
Could you please remind me where to find the baptism you refer to. Can't seem to locate it on ancestry or findmypast. This isn't the Gray's Inn Lane baptism is it?
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The only possible baptisms I can find for Jesse Adams are; Jessy Adams -Holborn London, 26/2/1809 parents William Adams and Mary.
Transcript on ancestry says Male - original has daughter
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rau/
Name: Jessy Adams
Gender: Male
Record Type: Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date: 26 Feb 1809
Baptism Place: St Andrew, Holborn, Camden, London, England
Father: William Adams
Mother: Mary Adams
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Transcript on ancestry says Male - original has daughter
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rau/
Name: Jessy Adams
Gender: Male
Record Type: Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date: 26 Feb 1809
Baptism Place: St Andrew, Holborn, Camden, London, England
Father: William Adams
Mother: Mary Adams
cheers Rosie
Yes, that's the Gray's Inn Lane birth. Hardly a brick merchant!
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Ralph Adams who was in the Tile /Brick trade was linked to Grays Inn Lane / Road
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/39bf0b7b-724b-4343-b829-e31f9e44b5fe
other Adams on TNA index linked to Pottery Lane
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3e776045-f5d1-4490-82e4-9b6b730ed952
also on newspaper website (F M P / BNA )
Law Chronicle, Commercial and Bankruptcy Register 22 January 1818
Adams, Ralph & William of Grays Inn Lane Road and Maiden Lane, Battle Bridge, Middlesex Brick & Tile Makers & Potters .....
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A Ralph Adams is in Chadds Row in 1841 with wife Elizabeth and lots of children - occupation Brick Maker - born c1786.
Still there in 1851 born Hendon with wife Elizabeth (nee Weaver)
I have mentioned this family before :)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857000.msg7256493#msg7256493
ADDED Ralph was buried in January 1858 age 73 (Ancestry)
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Hello Rosie,
Thanks again for your help.
I jumped on findmypast.com to try and see if there were any brothers and sisters for a Jessy Adams bap 1809 in Holborn, with father William & mother Mary. So I searched ADAMS with mother & father William & Mary +/- 10 years, bap in Holborn
This is what I came up with:
William Henry Adams
1801– (handwritten on image) (bap 1806)
Frederick Adams
1805–
Sarah Adams
1806–
James Adams (no image - findmypast record only)
1807–
Jesse Adams
1809–1870
William Samuel Adams (no image - findmypast record only)
1819–1877
All of the ones pre-Jesse lived in Brooks Market when baptised (which I see on the map is close to Gray's Inn Lane). William Samuel Adams I could not find an image for, came up with an interesting marriage result. He married Ann Jenkins, 22 Mar 1840, St George the Martyr, Southwark (father William Adams, occupation "mason"). On the marriage entry it doesn't say the father is deceased.
I found a likely death for William Samuel Adams in 1877, St Olave Southwark, London, (born abt 1820)
The gap between the birth ages 1809 & 1819 seems quite a big one, I admit, so I hope I have the correct families. Maybe there are other siblings I've missed out on
I am guessing the Ralph Adams you mentioned may have been the brother to William Adams, if we have the correct family. I am yet to find any birth or marriage details for William or Mary.
findmypast is easier to find people but not always as comprehensive as ancestry.com, which I find more challenging to navigate.
Still haven't found out who the L. Adams, present at the death of Jesse Adams was.
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Are you able to attach a snippet of that certificate showing the informants details please
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Are you able to attach a snippet of that certificate showing the informants details please
Hello Rosie,
thanks for your message
Is this the part of the certificate you were after?
Both William Adams & Ann Jenkins are listed as living in King St. in the main part of the certificate, the wedding took place at Southwark, St George the Martyr
This William is young enough to be the first child of William Henry Adams born 1801. that I mention above. Perhaps that explains the gap between this William getting married (born 1819) and Jesse
I do not have a death certificate for this man who got married
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Sorry I was not clear, I was after the information on the informant on Jesses death certificate
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Sorry I was not clear, I was after the information on the informant on Jesses death certificate
Ah, OK. And since the last post, I found the image for William Jnr's baptism (1819) and it shows his father William as a "fruiterer" as occupation, address:Upper North Place; though I think possibly wrong family, although by the time William Jnr marries, father is a "mason" (1840). Still I think it's another family.
I will post the snippet from Jesse's death cert you asked for. Do you think the "L" might be a "G"?
Also, if you look at the 1861 FULHAM St Mary's census, you alluded to earlier, where a "John Adams" (aged 50) is living with a 'Georgena Adams' (aged 31), He gives his place of birth as Middlesex, St Pancras (Would that be in the same district as Holborn?). His occupation appears to be "moulder of figures" if I read the handwriting correctly - probably pottery figures in that case.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/MDXRG9_27_29-0172?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=fc204a6c89aa743db2b4ac87ef058fbb&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nkJ2&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=122991&lang=en-GB
I suggest as they did not officially marry until 1863 they may have been "living in sin" at the time and not officially married, therefore he possibly did not give his real name; or maybe he also went by the name John? The 1863 marriage Cert also gives his occupation as "Moulder"; abode 10 Pond Place, Georgina's abode 8 Pond Place (next door).
I can't read the address on the census form.
Spoke to an elderly relative today. He is in his 90s and very much looking forward to hearing all the results of the research.
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Trying to work out where 1 St Anne's Rd North would have been on this map, published 1871.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313015
It looks sparsely populated compared to today's London!
It would be interesting to see if the house was not destroyed in the war, if it can be viewed on Google maps/street-view
Found this photo of "St Ann's Villas", continuation of St Ann's Rd, near where there was a soup kitchen (photo prob late 1800s or early 1900s)
https://www.theundergroundmap.com/image.html?id=29254&image=1456741743
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This is maybe a long shot, but wondering if this is William Adams (Jesse's father's will), late of Chelsea, 1822, wife Mary. The Jessy [sic] born in Grays Inn Rd has parents of those names.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1704/images/31787_A037288-00490?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=8ea7ed856519afb1ed2b25a694fbbae6&pId=339521
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Thank you for the copy. I do think it says L Adams but I can't see anyone that would fit. Maybe as you suggest it should be G Adams and was Georgina which would make sense.
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this post was deleted
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Thankyou again to Rosie99 for her help
A Ralph Adams bap 7 Jun 1815, St Pancras, son of Ralph & Elizabeth; fathers occupation : TILE MAKER has been found
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1558/images/31280_194988-00134?usePUB=true&_phsrc=a1c-1363583&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1556107
I think he may be a cousin of Jesse Adams. I think this Ralph could be the one Rosie found, a Tile Maker. He is prob the one listed in the London Post office directory of 1841 as "Adams Ralph &Co. tile maker; Belle isle, Maiden la. King'scr", and likely the son of the person above.
I can't find anybody of that name born in Hendon at the appropriate time of art 1786.
there is a Thomas ADAMS, bap Hendon 1786, parents William & Mary. (This might be "Ralph" - Ralph may have been his middle name, and he used it as his common name)
There is also a William ADAMS bap 1890, Hendon parents William & Mary
also a Mary Ann ADAMS bap 1788, parents William & Mary.
(these are the only births i could find for parents Mary & William Adams in Hendon around that time)
to summarise
ADAMS - Thomas Adams (1786 - b Hendon)
ADAMS - Mary Ann Adams (1788 - b Hendon)
ADAMS - William Adams (1790 - b Hendon)
All the Hendon, St Mary Anglican baptisms originals for the era are on ancestry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1624/images/31281_a100523-00043?usePUB=true&_phsrc=a1c-1256091&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=4460347
Then they may have moved to St Andrew, Holborn, and I have the following births to a William & Mary Adams in the parish of St Andrew, Holborn, Camden, London (some of which may or may not fit):
ADAMS - Louisa Adams (1792 - b Saffron Hill)
ADAMS - William Adams (1794 - b Saffron Hill)
ADAMS - Elizabeth Adams (1796 - b Peters Street)
ADAMS - William Henry Adams (1801 - b Brooks Market)
ADAMS - Frederick Adams (1805 - b Brooks Market)
ADAMS - Sarah Adams (1806 - b Grays Inn Lane)
ADAMS - James Nash Adams (1807 - residence unknown - no image)
ADAMS - Jessy [sic] (1809 - b Grays Inn Lane) - who is the one whom we are trying to trace his ancestry
this is assuming infant mortality for some of the sons named William, or that they were different sets of parents - hard to know - given there were a few other births the same year in the same years for a Mary & William Adams
Those being:
ADAMS - Henry Adams (b 1794 - Middle Row)
ADAMS - Samuel Adams (b 1794 - Ely Court)
a William ADAMS married a Mary SCHOFIELD in Finsbury 22 Oct 1785, according to FindMyPast
If this is them or not I don't know. There are some other marriages in Central London on 1786, but this seems a bit close to the date of baptism for Thomas ADAMS in Hendon, with was 27 Aug 1786.
Are there any further sources that could be investigated to prove or disprove any of these people being related?
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Deleted :)