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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: nat11911 on Thursday 03 February 22 08:15 GMT (UK)
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Good morning! This scan shows part of a letter dated 1703, in a pretty horrible hand, and I can't for the life of me make out the name underlined... The two lines shown I have are as follows:
Wryte over this discloseyte with your own hand & substeyne it,
and send it to me by Arthur Arne or way vyr your utmost/you intrust ?????
All suggestions appreciated. Many thanks.
Chris
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guessing wildly ,so no help ,sorry - vigorous horse ??
can you post any more detail of what you have deciphered ?With the original and your translation ?
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Wryte over this discharge with your oun hand & subscrybe it
and send it to me by [Rithard? / Richard?] Rae or any [vyr?] you intrust
In Latin vir = man.
I can't see the fourth last word properly but if it is vyr then that may be the meaning.
Do we have the full first line in the clip?
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Is it not Richard Row or Roe ? This name is often used as a 'dummy' name for any trusted person, like 'John Doe'.
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Thanks for the replies. I’ve never heard of the ‘Jane Doe’/‘Richard Roe’ connection, but I can’t get away from the ‘th’ preceeded by what looks like an ‘r’ (which has the makings of ‘Arthur’) but which is quite possibly a ‘c’ (the makings of ‘Richard’). And the capital looks more like an upside-down ‘A’ than an ‘R’. I favour ‘substeyne’ [Old Scots] over ‘subscribe’ as ‘substeyne’ means ‘to establish as a means of proof’, and it fits well with the rest of the text asking the recipient to sign and return a document. Yes, it’s almost certainly ‘vyr’, so thanks for the Latin tip – I like that.
The 2 lines in the scan (complete lines) are from para 2 of a 2-para reply on the reverse of a letter from a son to his father, which dad then returned to his son. The son’s letter is fully transcribed, and dad’s reply (the one we’re looking at here) is 50/60% completed.
Thanks a lot.
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I favour ‘substeyne’ [Old Scots] over ‘subscribe’ as ‘substeyne’ means ‘to establish as a means of proof’, and it fits well with the rest of the text asking the recipient to sign and return a document.
I believe subscrybe is correct, as read by horselydown86, not 'substeyne'.
The c in the middle looks like t because it’s joined in ligature to the preceding s (compare discharge, which has exactly the same sc ligature).
The c is followed by a letter r (compare the last letter of your, in the same line).
The penultimate letter is b (compare with the 3rd letter of this word, which is clearly b).
So I must go with subscrybe. Perhaps we can agree to differ.
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Thanks Bookbox. I agree with you that the word does appear to be closer to 'subscrybe' than 'substeyne', but when I was searching an Old Scots dictionary ('subs*') it suggested both, and with a little creativity I was able to convince myself the latter was more appropriate. ::) But I concede, you're probably right, so I'll amend my transcript to 'subscrybe'.
Cheers!
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And another thanks to horsleydown for the 'any vyr' ('any man'). Great stuff. Cheers
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In a Scots document of this period vyr would be an an abbreviation of vther = other.
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GR2 - thanks for that, it really makes more sense. I've just Googled and found a book of late 17th/early 18th C letters (all transcribed), and lo and behold I see several examples of 'vyr', most of which clearly mean 'other'. Thank you!