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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Tabster on Wednesday 19 January 22 03:48 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find when 3 sisters arrived from Tasmania (I believe) to New Zealand. The girls are Ruth Olive Christina NEAL b 13.01.1893, Ethel Isabella NEAL b 30.03.1890 and Amy Rose NEAL b. 14.07.1895. All girls were born in Tasmania and all 3 died in New Zealand. Ruth died a spinster in 1918, and Ethel (Mrs Manning) and Amy (Mrs Cox) in 1977.
It would have been after 1901 and before 1911 I believe as Edith married in NZ in 1911
Just after the arrival date and if they were sponsored and any other early information.
Many thanks.
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By obtaining a death printout this may narrow down the time of arrival in New Zealand.
Part of the data collected at death registration [if of course known by the informant]:
Birth Details
• Where born
• How long in New Zealand
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search
Did the girls come alone to New Zealand?
Minniehaha.
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I am trying to find when 3 sisters arrived from Tasmania (I believe) to New Zealand. The girls are Ruth Olive Christina NEAL b 13.01.1893, Ethel Isabella NEAL b 30.03.1890 and Amy Rose NEAL b. 14.07.1895. All girls were born in Tasmania and all 3 died in New Zealand. Ruth died a spinster in 1918, and Ethel (Mrs Manning) and Amy (Mrs Cox) in 1977.
It would have been after 1901 and before 1911 I believe as Edith married in NZ in 1911
Just after the arrival date and if they were sponsored and any other early information.
Many thanks.
Hi .... you mean Ethel do you, rather than Edith ?? ;)
~ Lu
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I think this is the death of the brother of the girls in 1911.
It gives the information also that their parents were dead.
It mentions he had taken a trip to NZ recently.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/152371394
Here is the death of the disabled brother mentioned above.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/152239530
The parents of this family appear to be John and Annie (nee THOMAS) NEAL..
He died in 1896 According to a record here
https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/results?qu=john&qu=neal
Sue
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Hi.
Ruth's probate if you have not already found it.
www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22224537&digital=yes
And Ethel's probate.
www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=23017240&digital=yes
Alan
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Good work there, Sue. :)
I noticed earlier when I read Ruth's Probate record, that she had been resident in Taihape (a smallish North Island town).
Have also found Ethel Isabella NEAL was listed registered to vote on the 1911 Waimarino roll.
That tends to suggest that she'd probably been in NZ earlier than 1911 ?? She was working at Taihape as a waitress at that time. Added: Same register 1911 also under her married name and living at Hihitahi. Ruth Olive NEAL first appears on Waimarino (supplementary) roll in 1914 living at Huia Street. Being on supplementary roll may mean she had only just arrived in the district. Added: Or, meant she had only just attained the voting age of 21 (I see she was born 1893).
* Do you think the girls may have gone to live with relatives in New Zealand ??
Unfortunately with these trans-Tasman "voyages" lasting only a few days, and with no requirement for Australian citizens to carry travel documentation, it was simply just a case of jumping aboard at one end and off at the other. Often passenger details were simply shown on the manifest as "XXX number in steerage" (no names recorded).
You could try searching the NZ Passenger lists at FamilySearch (although many are for immigrants).
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1927083
~ Lu
Added: Ethel Isabella NEAL married Ernest Edward MANNING on 13 September 1911.
Edits to add further information/ afterthoughts.
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Ruth was buried in the Taihape Cemetery.
https://www.rangitikei.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/database
There are other NEALs there and in nearby Mangaweka which may or may not be connected, and reason for them going there.
Ian C
Edit
Huia St is in Taihape, and Hihitahi is between Taihape and Waiouru.
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Thanks everyone,
The parents of the 3 sisters were John (died 1896) and Annie (Died 1898). The girls were admitted to an industrial school in Launceston TAS on 4.1.1899. There were at least 7 children.
I will research further on the information you have all provided. Given that the family were in poor circumstances thought that there must have been a reason for the NZ move, and perhaps all 3 girls went together.
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" Do you think the girls may have gone to live with relatives in New Zealand ??"
It appears that 2 older brothers were in NZ, married and died there as well, while 2 other brothers stayed in Tasmania, although one did visit NZ before June 1911. One in NZ was married in 1908, the other had a child by 1911. As mentioned there seems to be no way to find all immigration records and those that are mentioned could simply be Mr Neal or E Neal etc.
A work in progress, again, many thanks for the assistance.
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Hi Tabster
* Are you able to provide us with the names of the brothers who were in New Zealand, please ?
~ Lu
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Yes, sorry Lu,
Samuel Osborn NEAL born 1881 and John Begent NEAL born 1884
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" Do you think the girls may have gone to live with relatives in New Zealand ??"
It appears that 2 older brothers were in NZ, married and died there as well, while 2 other brothers stayed in Tasmania, although one did visit NZ before June 1911. One in NZ was married in 1908, the other had a child by 1911.
.... As mentioned there seems to be no way to find all immigration records and those that are mentioned could simply be Mr Neal or E Neal etc.
Hi again Tabster
Just wanted to add some clarification for you.
"...seems to be no way to find all immigration records ...
As these people were Australian citizens, (in those days usually known as "British subjects"), they were free to come and go to/from NZ, as they pleased. That is, no travel documentation was required.
AND they were not classified as "immigrants" (persons arriving in NZ per a government or provincial Immigration scheme ). The bulk of New Zealand passenger lists emanating from that era, tends to record immigrants.
"... one [brother ] in NZ was married in 1908 " We need his name ... there were three NEAL males marrying in 1908.
You mentioned earlier the girls had been place in an Industrial school in Launceston.
* Were they all released at the same time, do you know ??
~ Lu
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Tabster ... here's the electoral info for NEAL boys >
1914 - Bay of Plenty - Waimarino Supplementary roll
NEAL - Samuel Osborne - Turangarere - Labourer
Added: Have just found this for John and wife >
1914 - B. o. P. - Waimarino Main roll
NEAL - John - Turangarere - Bush foreman
NEAL - Margaret Hutchison - married
[Above 1914 is first appearance I can see for Samuel ... and he is listed directly underneath listing for Ruth Olive NEAL (which I think I gave you earlier ?) ]
1919 - Rangitikei supplementary roll
NEAL - John - Kaka Road - Taihape - Bush contractor
and on same roll ... but listed as " O'NEAL " Samuel - Kaka Road - Taihape -Bushman
~ Lu
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Is this the correct 1908 New Zealand marriage ???
NEAL - John -- McKAY - Margaret Hutchison -- 1908
~ Lu
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These NZ births >
1913 - NEAL - Florence Margaret
1915 - NEAL - Christina Dorothy
Parents of both: John and Margaret Hutchison NEAL
~ Lu
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Ruth was buried in the Taihape Cemetery.
https://www.rangitikei.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/database
There are other NEALs there and in nearby Mangaweka which may or may not be connected, and reason for them going there.
Ian C
Edit
Huia St is in Taihape, and Hihitahi is between Taihape and Waiouru.
Just adding to what Ian C has already given you. Turangarere is where Samuel Osborne NEAL was located in 1914 :
Turangarere ... is 3 km approx from Hihitahi
~ Lu
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Thanks so much for your time Lu. Regarding the Industrial School, the 3 girls were admitted in January 1899, but no discharge date is given. Usually the girls stayed until they were 16 but there were exceptions. Sometimes they were given to the care of relatives if they were deemed suitable. Given that the parents were dead and the eldest brother died in Ringarooma in June 1911, perhaps they were all allowed to go to family in NZ, but I would assume that they (NZ brothers) would have had to make a case for this to happen. Of course they could have gone one by one as soon as their time in the school was up.
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.
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Some particulars re John Beagent Neal-
Probated will:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14771982&digital=yes
Death registration:
1962/39700 Neal John 78Y
Added [deaths of daughters named in will]:
1982/48433 McVeigh Christina Dorothy 9 July 1915
1983/43125 Tietjens Florence Margaret 29 March 1913
2001/11177 Clarke Thelma Ellen 3 July 1911
Minniehaha.
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Marriage: I think this is the correct couple as mentioned earlier.
1908/6537 Margaret Hutchinson* McKay John Neal
Death:
1955/27026 Neal Margaret Hutchison* 69Y
[Margaret was not mentioned in the will of John Beagent Neal which was executed in 1962.]
*Note different spelling.
Minniehaha.
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" Do you think the girls may have gone to live with relatives in New Zealand ??"
...It appears that 2 older brothers were in NZ, married and died there as well, ...
Samuel Osborne NEAL died NZ 1934 aged 53 years. Couldn't see a New Zealand marriage for him.
~ Lu
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Hi Tabster
* Have you looked through the passenger lists on the PRO VIC website for persons departing
Victoria ??
If the girls had been in Launceston, then they may very well have gone across to Victoria and departed for New Zealand from there.
* Check both the "Coastal" and "Outward" lists. [Not all in "Outward" were travelling to NZ but it's still worth checking both of these lists. ]
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/passenger-records-and-immigration
~ Lu
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Cemetery record for Samuel Osborne NEAL :
https://www.ruapehudc.govt.nz/our-services/cemeteries/online-cemetery-search?surname=NEAL&forenames=samuel&yearFrom=&yearTo=
~ Lu
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An update on the Neal sisters arrival from Tasmania.
My grandmother is Ethel Neal, one of the sisters referred too.
John and Annie had a total of 8 children, John died in 1896 and Annie in 1898.
Clarence Herbert Carpenter Clark/Neal b 31 Jan 1877 Ringarooma - d 3 Sep 1910 Ringarooma. Clarence was illegitimate, father unknown, born a cripple, he never married.
William Edward Neal b 21 Nov 1878 Ringarooma - d 15 Jun 1911 Waituhi, Taumarunui, New Zealand. Never married and his occupation was a sawmill hand labourer.'
Samuel Osborne Neal b 20 Dec 1881 Ringarooma - d 26 Oct 1934 Taumarunui, New Zealand. He never married and his occupation, Bushman/labourer.
John Begent Neal b 26 May 1884 Ringarooma - d 12 Nov 1962 Auckland, New Zealand. John married in Auckland to Margaret McKay and they had 3 girls. Occupation Farmer.
Amy Harriet Neal b 29 Sep 1886 Ringarooma - d 25 Sep 1890 Ringarooma. Died aged 3 of Diphtheria.
Ethel Isabella Neal b 30 Mar 1890 Ringarooma - d 13 Dec 1977 New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand. Married on 13 Sep 1911 in Taihape, New Zealand to Ernest Edward Manning. Ernest arrived approximately in NZ in either 1906-1907, He was born in Eldorado, Victoria, Australia. Ethel and Ernest had 4 boys, the youngest being my father.
Ruth Olive Christina Neal b 13 Jan 1893 Ringarooma - died 17 Nov 1918 Taihape, New Zealand during the Spanish Flu epidemic. Never married.
Amy Rose Neal b 4 Jul 1895 Ringarooma - d 3 Aug 1977 New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand. Married in 1922 in New Plymouth to Frederick Cox. They had 2 girls.
When Annie died on 11 Sep 1898 within 4 months on 4 Jan 1899 Ethel and her 2 younger sisters, Ruth and Amy were admitted into the Female Industrial School, Launceston. Ethel was aged 8, Ruth 5 and Amy 3.
On the death of their mother William continued to care for Clarence. Clarence died in Aug 1910. After his death William went to live in New Zealand leaving in late 1910 where his brother John was living.
Samuel is listed in the 1914 Australian Electoral Rolls as being a labourer in Ringarooma but by 1916 he is listed in the NZ Army WW1 Reserve Rolls so I don't know if he lived in NZ prior to 1914 for awhile or not.
I am uncertain as to when John left Tasmania to live in New Zealand as I can not find the shipping records but it was before 1908 as John married in 1908 in New Zealand.
John in approximately 1910 - 1911 traveled back to Tasmania to bring his 3 sisters back to New Zealand to live. All 3 sisters living at the Industrial School until the age of 16.
I know my grandmother Ethel was extremely close to her 2 younger sisters and to her brother John. After all of those years since their mother died in 1898 the family were reunited again, not in Tasmania but New Zealand. When they first arrived in New Zealand John, Ethel, Ruth and Amy, Samuel and William they initially all lived in Taihape or the surrounding area for a number of years before all moving to other parts of the North Island to live.
Suzanne
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Many thanks Suzanne for taking the time to reply so comprehensively. I am writing a history of the Launceston Girls Industrial School and trying to trace the lives of all of the girls who went there. Your information had added to my knowledge of the Neal family.
Kindest regards
Dianne in Launceston.
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Hi Dianne,
Glad I was able to help. If you need anymore information just let me know, but what I wrote is basically all I know.
Would you know where I could find the records of when the girls left the Industrial School, or how I could find that out as I think it would have been around 1910-1911?
I understand that the girls stay at the Industrial School until the age of 16, are they found work to go to after they leave and would there be any records as too who they were employed too?
Suzanne
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There is very little that seems to have survived. Here is a link to the page with your relatives mentioned on it. https://stors.tas.gov.au/SWD37-1-2$init=SWD37-1-2P26. Sorry you will have to cut and paste, cant get it to link. The other information source is TROVE, the digitised Australian newspapers but as this was getting later, often the newspapers didn't report these events any more. Unfortunately there is no social welfare file for the sisters on the Tasmanian Libraries site. Often the girls just disappeared from the records unless they got into trouble, where the event might have been in the papers. They apprenticed the girls out at around 14-16 years old if they were suitable (and even if they were not) especially early on. Very rarely do they mention who apprenticed or boarded out to unless there is a specific file that has survived. Searches of the various BMD records in Australia have located quite a few of the girls I am researching, and a few others turned up in NZ. Have found one who ended up in the UK via New York. If I do find anything during the course of my research, I will let you know. Cheers Dianne.
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Thanks Dianne for the information. Much appreciated, and yes if you do find out anything new I would love to know.
Suzanne