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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: JimBlack on Sunday 16 January 22 13:12 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone. New guy here. I've been researching my Black surname for over 30 years and can't get past a John Black (1803-1856), who was a successful shop owner in New York City and who was apparently born there. My paper trail says his parents were born in Scotland but I've exhausted the searches on the big genealogy sites for legal docs, immigration, census, etc. I've also checked ScotlandsPeople and many other sites, including many ship passenger lists.
My Y-DNA test connects me with the Rankin surname from Argyll (Glencoe area) so there was a name change, likely in the 1700s. My Black ancestors may be highlanders from that area but they also may have moved to the south before emigrating to America in the late 1700s. They may have also emigrated to Nova Scotia initially but that hasn't turned up much info either. And yes, it's even possible they were Ulster Scots before coming to America but there is no evidence of that.
Of course there are many Blacks in Scotland in the late 1700s, and plenty in New York City then also, but making the connections has been quite difficult. If anyone has any ideas on how I can make the Scotland-USA connection, or has looked into the Black or Rankin names, I'd love to hear your comments. I have checked the SIT on this site and will email some researchers soon.
Thanks for reading. I have a lot of info on all my other family lines going back hundreds of years but my direct paternal line has been the hardest nut to crack!
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Does your paper trail include the names of your John Black's parents? Because without that information I'm sorry to have to say that you have no chance of finding anything about his Scottish connections.
Black is one of the 50 commonest surnames in Scotland and there are 11,800 records of baptisms of Blacks in Scotland before 1800.
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This is my problem. No I don't have anything on his parents at all. Hopefully I can come across someone who has been researching my surname in Scotland and who knows of an ancestor who came to America at that time.
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Very few people now in Scotland are likely to know of a relation who "came to America at that time." The change of surname could be due to illegitimate birth(s) and not someone actually starting to use a different surname. Hopefully, as you have more DNA matches come through it might be possible to find links.
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A shot in the dark. Do you have the names of your guy's eldest son and daughter - this can often indicate parents' names. (see other threads on Scottish naming patterns)
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That's what I was thinking also. His oldest son was John B. Black and his other son was Samuel A.G. Black. He didn't have any daughters. My understanding is that the first son is named after the grandfather so I assume that the person I am looking for in another John Black, born around 1780. Do I have that right?
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Unfortunately, naming patterns, if a family even follows it, are most useful in hindsight when ALL details are known. "Eldest child" may not be the first child- perhaps earlier child/children died or just haven't been found. 'Second son after maternal grandfather' doesn't work if father & both grandfather or father & maternal grandfathers share same Christian name. It was quite common for parents to re-use the name of a deceased child so that's another thing which can throw everything off.
I see, however, that you've mentioned middle initials "John B. Black and his other son was Samuel A.G. Black." Any idea what they stand for? might be some clues there.
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Oh my goodness !! This resonates with me !!
My grandfather was the 2nd son of James Black. The first son was Alexander Black, my grandfather`s half brother. The name Alexander in my tree goes back 5 generations, so you can imagine the difficulty!!
I have a feeling that my grandfather`s gt uncle Alexander Black went to the USA, but this has also proved hard to research.
I`ve put it on the back burner for a few months !!
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Thanks for that info aghadowey. I'm pretty sure John B. is the first son of John since he was born within a year of John's marriage. But then again you still can't be sure. Yes, the middle initials have always interested me but I don't know what they refer to. John B's first son was also John B. so that's another thing. My guess is that they refer to the mother's maiden name but who knows. Samuel A.G.'s initials are also a mystery but they may refers to his mother's family since that name was Gray. It's all guesswork really. I am hoping that the Y-DNA analysis leads to some clues so I can better define the time frame of the name change from Rankin to Black.
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I know how you feel BillyF. It's been all John, James and William for my Black men for over 200 years! Have you done any Y DNA testing? That might prove interesting, especially if some Americans share your DNA.
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I haven`t done DNA testing. I think it might be beyond me !! I`ve too much on just at the moment to be able to try and work it out !!
It`s definitely confusing; in the early days I managed to marry one Alexander to his mother "and" stepmother !!
I also have Johns and Williams, James not much at all. "my" James Black deserted his family and used his mothers ms. On his death certificate the names of his parents are transposed !!