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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mixo on Saturday 15 January 22 04:23 GMT (UK)
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Hello with greetings from Australia,
Due to limited Kent records access here in Oz, I write seeking info regarding the birth and parentage records of my 3rd great grandfather James Hills Senior and his wife Mary Ann Emery, who appears born in 1791 at Chatham. I believe James and Mary Ann were married on 4 Dec 1815 at St Botolph's, Northfleet, Kent.
Their son James, my 2nd great grandfather, appears to have been baptized at St Georges Gravesend in Nov 1816, and his sister Sarah married Edward Haffel Coy, was born in South Benfleet Essex in 1824. James junior married Louisa Rowe at Portsmouth in 1839, and they immigrated to my home state of Victoria in Jan 1840.
Your assistance regarding James Hill Senior and Martha Ann Emery's parents and families would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks for your time and expertise.
K. J. Mixo Sydenham
Ellinbank Victoria Australia
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Just had a quick look at this and is James Jnrs Fathers Occp a Carpenter on his 1839 M/C?
Also a Tree has James Snr dying 24 July 1853 Gravesend.
That is not him.
GRO has HILLS, JAMES age 0**
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in GRAVESEND AND MILTON Volume 02A
(so under 1 yr)
Burial also is on FreeREG age 9 mths****
(www.freereg.org.uk)
James is deceased on Sarahs 1846 M/C and no occp is shown for him.
Martha Ann Hills is a witness.
Trish :)
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Chatham images are available on Medway Cityark website.
There is a James Hills with parents James & Elizabeth baptised there 4th May 1788 - you need to scroll to image 42 on the following link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01r6x/
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Chatham images are available on Medway Cityark website.
Rosie99, I would love to know how to do a search on that site. It has been mentioned before in other threads, and i have not yet worked out how to navigate my way around. Any hints please? :)
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FindMyPast takes you directly to the site from their transcripts.
I used to be able to find my way round Cityark before it was 'moved' but like you, not any more so I was delighted to find links on F M P ;D
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Ah, i’m not with FindMyPast. Thanks anyway.
Good to know I am not the only one unable to work it out.
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CityArk
From https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/
You first select Parish records (archdeaconry of Rochester)
Then you select the parish you want to look at
Next page click on the blue Plus sign
Next page click on the plus sign next to “Incumbent parish registers”
Various choices come up. They aren’t always in a logical order.
Choose the one you want. This time clicking on the writing
The next screen won’t look much different except there is some red writing.
Above the line drawn across the screen you will see the words
Digitised version (and in the example I am working through) P008-01-01 pdf.
It looks insignificant on the page.
Click on the blue pdf number and wait for the file to load. They are large and can take awhile.
Repeat as necessary 😀
Hope that makes sense
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Thank you :). I have printed that for future reference ;D
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Thank you indeed, mckha489 :)
I too, have copied your directions and will keep on hand for when needed. Your directions were excellent, but I would never have worked it out without them. One would think there should be a clearer & more accessible method. ::)
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Hi again,
Thank you for your time and leads so far.
Having spent some time looking into James Hills ( snr ), I followed up the fact his daughter Sarah was born in Northfleet Essex, and discovered what I believe is his burial record at St Botolphs in Hadstock Essex in 1841 aged 53, which matches the birth you advised to James and Elizabeth at Chatham.
The church denomination also matches his marriage record at Northfleet.
Am now looking into James and Elizabeth Hills from Chatham as above - your assistance would be appreciated if possible please.
Many Thanks
Mixo
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In your opening, you say James’ snr wife is Mary and then you say she is Martha. Unsure of name?
There is a baptism for a Mary EMERY at Dartford Holy Trinity on 20 Mar 1792. Parents are John and Martha. Dartford is only a few miles from Chatham.
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Mixo, can you please post the information that you have from James Junior marriage and death certificates? Fathers occupation? Witnesses? Any census records for Sarah, James Snr, Martha?
Jo :)
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Marriage at Northfleet 14 Dec 1815 is between James Hills and Martha Emery
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Mixo, can you please post the information that you have from James Junior marriage and death certificates? Fathers occupation? Witnesses? Any census records for Sarah, James Snr, Martha?
Jo :)
James Hills-full age-Bachelor-Wollen Draper-abode Portsea Town-father James occ Builder
Louisa Rowe-full age-spinster-abode Portsea Town-father Joseph-occ Blockmaker
wit James Row, Charlotte Row. Louisa signed as Louisa Row
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Hi,
Sorry - My resources regrading UK certificates as a pensioner are limited.
James Hills Junior ( Bap 8 Nov 1816 Gravesend), married Louisa Rowe ( Bap 24 Sep 1820 St Marys Portsea ) on 8 Aug 1839 at Portsmouth. James died on his property at Elliminyt near Colac Victoria and Louisa died at Colac on 7 Nov 1888
Sarah was born Sth Benfleet Essex in 1824, married Edward Haffel Coy on 8 Jul 1846 at St Marys Stoke Newington. I have not listed formal census records for them, however their fist 5 children were born at 48 Kempthorne St Gravesend between 1847 and 1853, and their remaining children born at Gravesend till 1860. One died at Milton by Gravesend in 1860.
James Senior died in 1841 at Hadstock in Essex so no census found. Place of birth does not match Martha in census records, but she may have resided at Milton by Gravesend. She had 10 grandchildren via Sarah at Gravesend.
Hope this help
Mixo
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James Senior died in 1841 at Hadstock in Essex so no census found.
What evidence do you have that this is your James. Hadstock is nearly 50 miles from South Benfleet.
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Hi Mixo,
When Sarah of South Benfleet married Edward Coy a witness was Martha Ann Hills, is this why you believe she is your Sarah? There is also a Martha Ann Hills baptised at South Benfleet in 1826, d/o James and Lydia, James a carpenter. Is there any other reason that you believe that the Sarah who married Edward Coy is the sister of your James?
Jo :)
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Hi again,
About Jo's question re Sarah - thank you.
I guess I may have got an initial "potential bum steer" from 4 or 5 other Ancestry members, who list James Hills and Martha Ann Emery as Sarah's parents ? Now I admit to being a little confused.
Part of my reasoning is based on the parents names on Sarah's marriage certificate are 100% correct. Also I presumed the Hills family moved away from Gravesend some time after the birth of James Junior in 1816, mainly as I was unable to locate a matching death record of James Snr anywhere in Kent. Also, I find it more than a coincidence that Edward Coy was noted as residing in the Hills old family hometown of Gravesend, at the time of his marriage to Sarah quite a fair way away at Stoke in Middlesex on the other side of the Thames.
So Rosie, I thank you too for raising the point of my possibly incorrect presumption of James Snr passing away Hadstock. I have done a thorough search on FreeReg for every James Hills death record, in Kent & Essex & Middlesex & London City, between 1823 and 1880, including the death of James Hills buried at St Mary's Sth Benfleet in 1843 aged 47. By a process of diligent elimination, I have found no other death record which even comes anywhere close to my noted record that our James Hills Snr, was born in 1788 at Chatham, and probably died in Hadstock Essex aged 52.
With all due respect Rosie, I do realize Hadstock is some 45 miles from Sth Benfleet, however to me it appears obvious my Hills family obviously travelled quite soe distances, eg. over the Thames from relatively rural old time areas to London's suburbs, most likely for work or family reasons. Obviously, I will gladly consider any other logical and accurate record you can provide, regarding the place and time of death of James Hills Snr.
Again, I thank all you Rootschat members, for your past and present input into my family research.
Best Regards
Mixo Sydenham
Ellinbank Vic Australia
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Just looking at it again in case I have missed something :)
The marriage of James Hills is to a Martha Emery, no middle name Ann.
Sarahs marriage names her father as James Hills - Deceased, no occupation mentioned. A witness was Martha Ann Hills, it does not indicate what relation she is to Sarah. The marriage took place at Stoke Newington as it was Sarahs current place of abode, she gave no occupation at the time of her marriage but could previously have been a servant in that area. Have you located a baptism for Sarah to confirm the name of her mother :-\
Edward was a Waterman born in Milton by Gravesend and was still in that area at the time of his marriage presumably as that was where his work as Waterman was based. His father Francis Isaac Coy was also a Waterman according to Edwards baptism.
James junior married in Portsea, his occupation was a 'Wollen' Draper, his father James was a builder. What was young James doing in Portsea, did his parents also move there.
Presumably the death records you have in Australia confirm that James was born in Gravesend and the parents are James Hills & Martha Emery, I know that they are far more informative than English records
As for Kent records, sadly they are far from complete online.
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Hi,
Sorry Rosie - no birth certificate located from here for Sarah. I do recall seeing a census noting a Sarah Hills as a servant of I think of about 15 years of age in Stoke, and I think one Ancestry tree had an IGI reference for her birth.
Re James Jnrs' interests in Portsea I have no idea, as I think you are referring to a time frame prior to UK Census of 1841. Yes - Aussie record states "James Hills" and "Martha Emery" as his parents, however often middle names were omitted in those days.
Regards with thanks for your time and expertise.
Mixo
Via Warragul Victoria
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At least Australian records confirm that the names of James Hills and Martha Emery exactly match the English marriage with no middle name for Martha Emery.
I can only see one tree with a full date but that names Sarah Hills born Essex mother as Sarah and has her birth 1819 and baptism 18 April 1822 at Billericay.
I think that the 1841 census entry you mention may be the one at Newington, Lambeth and not Stoke Newington. That is also showing on that tree.
If James juniors father was a builder as mentioned on the marriage entry then a mention of a James Hills who has died in the Portsea area c1837 could be relevant. It was in relation to the sale of private residences by auction at The Mitre in Portsea by the executor of the late James Hills. It mentions '3 lots'. all are dwellings. Perhaps they were all built by him :-\
Lot 1 - 1 Cold Harbour Lane, Landport
Lot 2 - Spring Garden Street (James Hills residence)
Lot 3 - 26 Marlborough Row, Portsea
Hampshire Advertiser 26 August 1837
There is a burial for that James which may infer he was single as it mentions his parents Thomas & Elizabeth and no mention of a wife, so possibly not your James
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Hi Rosie and all interested Rootschat members,
Having found no listing of your reference to James Hills passing C1837 at Portsea via FreeReg search in all of Hampton from 1830 - 1845, I agree he most likely is not my James. With all due respect, I believe your suggestion of a Sarah Hills born to a Sarah from Billericay with a mother Sarah, and not a Martha ( Emery ) from Gravesend, is most likely not my Sarah.
I have spent quite a deal of time trying to find any relevant birth record for Martha Emery ( with Ann as an optional middle name too ), in FreeReg, Ancestry, and FamilySearch, and have been unable to confirm any details. I would really appreciate any idea or input re Martha's birth, as I am beginning think her birth may not have been registered anywhere.
Also, I have spent quite some time tracing James Snr parentage, as outlined below, and I would really appreciate your comments and feedback, as far as how accurate the following details may be.
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James Hills Snr Baptised 4 May 1788, St Mary's Chatham Kent,
Married Martha ( Ann ? ) Emery 14 Dec 1815, St Botolphs Northfleet Kent, File 1469436 IT 3
Parents of -
James Hills Jnr Bap 8 Nov 1816, Gravesend, died Elliminyt and buried Colac Vic Aus Sep 1895.
Sarah Hills ( to be confirmed ) Born 1824 South Benfleet Essex, married Edward Haffel Coy on 8 Jul 1846 at St Mary's Stoke Newington, and died 6 Aug 1919 at Gravesend, where her 10 children were born.
Only relevant Death record of any James Hill born 1788 located to date, is that of James passing at St Botolphs Hadstock Essex.
Only relevant Death record of any Martha Ann Hills nee Emery born 1791 at Chatham located to date, is that of an "Ann Hills" passing away at Gravesend on 29 Dec 1873.
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Parents of James Hills Snr born 1788 St Mary's Chatham.
Father is noted as James Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Nov 1763
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN
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Parents of James Hills born 1763 at Chatham
Father is noted as William Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Jul 1740
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN
This William Hills is noted as having parents of William and Mary Hills, to be confirmed.
Looking forward to your reply,
Mixo
Via Warragul Vic Aus
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Going back to Sarah Hills born South Benfleet - father James and marriage witness Martha Ann Hills.
South Benfleet PR's have a Martha Ann Hills baptised 10 September 1826 parents James & Lydia, could she be the marriage witness and probably Sarahs sister.
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Just looking at James Hills senior.
Proved facts
He married Martha Emery December 1815 at Northfleet.
His son James was baptised 1816 Gravesend
Do we have any proof that he was born in Chatham :-\
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I do have a copy of James Snr handwritten Baptism record from St Mary's Chatham in 1788 Rosie, but I cant attach it for some dumb reason - maybe I'm just dumb LOL
All is says under 4 May 1788 is "Hills - James S of James and Elizabeth"
Re Sarah, I read your comment a few times, then I realized Martha ( maybe Ann ) would have been baptized with the surname of Emery and not Hills, so this Martha Ann Hills from 1826 at Sth Benfleet you mention, is most likely not Sarah's sister as suggested.
Regards with thanks,
Mixo
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Sorry, I realise that you have the Chatham baptism details but I meant how do you know that your James was born in Chatham. We have his marriage details but they give no indication of his birth place.
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I agree with Rosie, that the Sarah Hills who married Edward Coy is most likely the daughter of James & Lydia Hills (or an earlier wife) and also related to the Martha Ann Hills (witness at her wedding). I don’t think that the Martha Ann who witnessed Sarah’s marriage was her mother.
1817 James s/o James & Lydia (carpenter) South Benfleet
Martha Ann d/o James & Lydia 1826 South Benfleet
It helps to focus on what you know to be fact. The baptism of your James and the marriage of his parents. The occupation of both James’s at a certain point of time. Everything else is an assumption.
There are many possible deaths for a James Hills in the appropriate age frame. You have no evidence of his year of birth, he could have married anywhere from age 18 to 50…. He also could have been born anywhere…
There are also many possible baptisms as well as the one you mention earlier. It helps to step back sometimes and strip it right back to what you are sure of.
Do you have James Jnr Australian death certificate? Any family wills? Anything regarding James and Martha that you can be sure of?
Jo :)
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Do you have James Jnr Australian death certificate? Any family wills? Anything regarding James and Martha that you can be sure of?
Jo :)
We Know from Australian records that the parents of Mixo's James were James Hills and Martha Emery. This couple married in Northfleet, Kent 14 Dec 1815. James jnr was born in Kent the following year.
James jnr married Louisa Row(e)at Portsea in August 1839 (Father James Hills occ builder)
ADDED
Online passenger lists indicate that James (jnr) and Louisa went to Australia in 1840 on the John Bull
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Just for information on the South Benfleet family
James Hills (Bachelor)
Liddy Coot (Spinster)
Marriage date 21 Jan 1817
Place South Benfleet, Essex
Both of the parish of South Benfleet
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Just for information on the South Benfleet family
James Hills (Bachelor)
Liddy Coot (Spinster)
Marriage date 21 Jan 1817
Place South Benfleet, Essex
Both of the parish of South Benfleet
For info.
Lidia Coot
Baptism Jan 1798 Hockley, St Peter And St Paul, Essex, England
Father: John Coot Mother: Elizabeth
Marriage 24 Dec 1843 South Benfleet, Essex,
Lydia Hills, w, Father: John Coot, labourer
Spouse: Samuel Hockley ,w,
1861 Piece: 1083 Folio: 48 Page Number: 13
Samuel Hockley 61
Lydia Hockley 63 Hockley
Philip Martin 14 lodger
Lydia Hockley Death Age: 64
Burial 19 May 1862 Essex
When Sarah of South Benfleet married Edward Coy a witness was Martha Ann Hills, is this why you believe she is your Sarah?
There is also a Martha Ann Hills baptised at South Benfleet in 1826, d/o James and Lydia, James a carpenter.
I agree with Rosie, that the Sarah Hills who married Edward Coy is most likely the daughter of James & Lydia Hills (or an earlier wife) and also related to the Martha Ann Hills (witness at her wedding).
I don’t think that the Martha Ann who witnessed Sarah’s marriage was her mother.
1817 James s/o James & Lydia (carpenter) South Benfleet
Martha Ann d/o James & Lydia 1826 South Benfleet
It helps to focus on what you know to be fact. The baptism of your James and the marriage of his parents. The occupation of both James’s at a certain point of time. Everything else is an assumption.
Could this be the marriage of the Martha Ann Hills that Jo mentions above
27 Jan 1850 St Botolphs Northfleet
Martha Ann HILLS 21, servant
Father James occ Carpenter
John COLLARD 22, Horsekeeper
Father Peter, carver
Witnesses Sarah Brooker, William Best
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P270-01-21(1).pdf
Martha remarries 30 Nov 1861 Prittlewell
Martha Ann COLLARD, Widow, Res South Benfleet
Father James HILLS, occ Carpenter
Henry MARTIN, B, Res Canvey Island Prittlewell
Father William
1871 Piece: 1667 Folio: 46 Page number: 9
Henry Martin 37 Head
Martha Ann MARTIN 41 South Benfleet Essex Wife, died age 53 Dec 1883 Rochford, Essex
William Martin 8 Son
May M Martin 6 Daughter
Mary Martha MARTIN mmn HILLS
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in ROCHFORD Volume 04A Page 171
Also these South Benfleet baptisms parents named as James & Lydia
28 Aug 1838 William Hills no occupation
12 Feb 1837 John Hills, father occ carpenter
19 Nov 1833 George Hills ,father occ carpenter
10 Jul 1831 Susannah Hills, father occ carpenter,
burial South Benfleet 21 April 1835 age 3yrs 10m Susannah
18 Jan 1829 George Hills, father occ carpenter
21 Sep 1821 Thomas Hills, father occ Carpenter
21 Jan 1819 Elizabeth Hills, father occ labourer
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Hi all
Re Jomcd967's question re James Junior. I am an elderly pensioner, and can't afford to buy certificates without due reason.
Our Victorian BDM records state James Hills ( Jnr ) as
"Jas Hills,
Death age 78,
Birth date abt 1817,
Death date abt 1895,
Death place Colac Victoria,
Registration date 1895,
Registration place Australia,
Father Jas
Mother Martha Emery,
Registration number 8844."
Also I have dozens of records and personal family photos confirming Jame's youngest daughter Zoe Lillias Hills. my great grandmother, lived at 64 Queen St Colac, that my late father pointed out to me in person in the 1970s, that this was where he grew up in his teens in the 1930s.
So I have no problems if you can't accept James Hills Junior was indeed my 2nd great grandfather, baptized 8 Nov 1816 at St Georges Gravesend, and I agree that Sarah Coy nee Hills may possibly not have his sister.
Yes - I am trying to retain focus on the facts regarding my ancestors, yet with all due respect, a number of "Red Herrings" have propped up from your Rootschat Group.
Best regards with much appreciation for your time and expertise.
Mixo Sydenham
Victoria Australia
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Yes - I am trying to retain focus on the facts regarding my ancestors, yet with all due respect, a number of "Red Herrings" have propped up from your Rootschat Group.
I believe that one 'red herring' which you initially mentioned is Sarah born Essex and we have tried hard to prove that she is linked to your James but there is no evidence. Although we have not found a baptism for her it is more likely that she is the daughter of James & Lydia.
When Sarah Hills married in July 1846 she stated that her father was James Hills -Deceased. James Hills the husband of Liddy/Lydia died in 1843 and Lydia remarried so that information would tie in.
Sadly to prove/disprove information we have to put forward suggestions so that we can then investigate them for any possible link.
........
As far as I can see the only information we have that we know is fact regarding your James in the UK is his Portsea marriage, his baptism in Kent and his parents James Hills and Martha Emery's marriage. ADDED We also have James snr occupation as Builder from James juniors marriage
You have suggested that James Hills senior was born / baptised in Chatham. I realise that you have a baptism that 'could' be him but at the moment we have no proof that it is so he could also be a red herring. :-\
As has been mentioned James could have been born anywhere as we have no evidence of his birthplace. This also applies to Martha.
I will look later at the Chatham 'Hills' to see if we can progress further with them :)
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Also, I have spent quite some time tracing James Snr parentage, as outlined below, and I would really appreciate your comments and feedback, as far as how accurate the following details may be.
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James Hills Snr Baptised 4 May 1788, St Mary's Chatham Kent,
Married Martha ( Ann ? ) Emery 14 Dec 1815, St Botolphs Northfleet Kent, File 1469436 IT 3
Parents of -
James Hills Jnr Bap 8 Nov 1816, Gravesend, died Elliminyt and buried Colac Vic Aus Sep 1895.
Sarah Hills ( to be confirmed ) Born 1824 South Benfleet Essex, married Edward Haffel Coy on 8 Jul 1846 at St Mary's Stoke Newington, and died 6 Aug 1919 at Gravesend, where her 10 children were born.
Only relevant Death record of any James Hill born 1788 located to date, is that of James passing at St Botolphs Hadstock Essex.
Only relevant Death record of any Martha Ann Hills nee Emery born 1791 at Chatham located to date, is that of an "Ann Hills" passing away at Gravesend on 29 Dec 1873.
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Parents of James Hills Snr born 1788 St Mary's Chatham.
Father is noted as James Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Nov 1763
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN
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Parents of James Hills born 1763 at Chatham
Father is noted as William Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Jul 1740
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN
This William Hills is noted as having parents of William and Mary Hills, to be confirmed.
Looking forward to your reply,
Mixo
Via Warragul Vic Aus
There was a James Hills who was baptised at St George, Gravesend in 1778 son of Robert I assume you have already eliminated him.
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Hi all,
Really do appreciate all your time and input regarding my enquiry about James Hills Snr, confirmed to be baptized 4 May 1788 at St Marys Chatham in Kent, and married his wife Martha Emery on 14th Dec 1815, and had their on James Hills Jnr, my confirmed 2nd great grandfather baptized 8th Nob 1816 at St Georges at Gravesend, who married my second great grandmother Louisa Rowe, who married James Junior on 8 Aug 1839 at Portsmouth.
As someone continents away with limited access to my true UK family history records as previously outlined, I must say, I have contacted your Rootschat Group, primarily for record confirmation, and not endless queries and grilling regarding proof and documents of my family history, I cannot provide from my current situation here in Australia.
Of course, as previously mentioned, I would love to hear any of your groups expert feedback regarding my research into
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Parents of James Hills Snr born 1788 St Mary's Chatham.
Father is noted as James Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Nov 1763
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN
=========================================
Parents of James Hills born 1763 at Chatham
Father is noted as William Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Jul 1740
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN
This William Hills is noted as having parents of William and Mary Hills, to be confirmed.
Many thanks if we are on the same page, historically wise.
Best regards with many thanks,
Mixo Sydenham
Via Warragul Vic Oz
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I am sorry that you are feeling that you are being grilled.
You have asked us to confirm the information that you have and as far as I can see you have no evidence that James senior was born in Chatham so no proof that the family you are asking for further information on is the correct family. Without knowing any more information on James snr and Martha after James jnrs birth it is difficult to establish the correct James Hills snr.
You have the details of the 1788 baptism of the James Hills with parents James & Elizabeth. I cannot see a marriage for this couple in Chatham though there are a couple in the Chatham area
but a few years before James birth
1781 - Rochester to Elizabeth Butler
1783 - Gillingham to Elizabeth Dunmore
Chatham and other Medway parish registers are available to view on this free website
http://medway.adlibhosting.com/results
Familysearch has transcripts for Chatham baptisms, I have not looked for marriages
Sorry that I have not been able to help you further.
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I’m also based in Australia, and can only avail myself of online records, but how amazing is it that there are so many sites and sources and help and advice that can be found online. :) And I wouldn’t have achieved half of my tree’s detail and accuracy without following many a red herring, because sometimes the process of elimination is the only way to be sure. Anything else is just a collection of names and dates, with no real meaning, they could be anyone?
I am also sorry that you didn’t feel helped by our efforts. But I totally agree with Rosie99 that you have no evidence beyond that which we have clearly defined in an effort to help you.
As far as I can see the only information we have that we know is fact regarding your James in the UK is his Portsea marriage, his baptism in Kent and his parents James Hills and Martha Emery's marriage. ADDED We also have James snr occupation as Builder from James juniors marriage
You seem convinced that James Snr was the James buried 1841 St Botolphs Hadstock Essex….but…….
James Hill, born 1788, baptised 1799 @ St Botolphs Hadstock, s/o Richard and Mary
James Hills married Sarah Pearson 1822 @ St Botolphs Hadstock
James Hills age 53, buried 1841 @ St Botolphs Hadstock
Only relevant Death record of any James Hill born 1788 located to date, is that of James passing at St Botolphs Hadstock Essex.
It only took a couple minutes to find and eliminate most of the following…but some would need further investigation….
James Hills, 35, of Gosport, buried Alverstoke Hampshire, 1822
James Hills, 36, of Bradweel near the Sea Essex, buried 1829
James Hills, 35, of Kelvendon Essex, buried 1836
James Hills, 53, of Leigh, buried 1838 Essex
James Hills, 46, of St Giles, buried 1838 St Giles Colchester Essex
James Hills, 47, of Sth Benfleet, buried 1843
James Hills, 58, of Gt Chesterford, buried 1854
James Hills, 54, of Boughton Under Bean Kent, buried 1840
James Hills, 52, buried 1842, Sholden, St Nicholas Kent
James Hills 57, buried 1845, Patrixbourne Kent
James Hills, 68, buried 1850 Dartford Kent
James Hills, 77, buried 1860, Chiddingstone Kent
James Hills buried 1833 Canterbury Kent
James Hills buried 1828 Gravesend Kent
James Hill, 65, buried 1849 Chatham Kent
James Hill buried 1835 Deptford Kent
James Hill buried 1816 Canterbury Kent
There are also a few census records that you need to rule in/out….
1851 Iden Rye Sussex
James Hall, 64, Journeyman Carpenter, b.Iden Sussex
Martha Hall, 55, b. Cranbrook Kent
1841 Stepney Middlesex
James Hill, 40, Carpenter, nbic
Sarah Hill, 40 + five Hill children
1841 Bridge Kent
James Hills, 50, Ind, bic
Sarah Hills, 55, bic
1841 Chipping Barnet Herts
James Hill, 80, builder, bic
James Hill, 40, builder, bic
Rachel Hill, 40, nbic (1851 shows b. Sevenoaks Kent)
Ann Hills d/o James & Martha, lab, baptised 1834, St Andrew Herts
Or….
Martha Hill, widow, married John Johnson, widower, 1834, Portsea Hampshire
I wanted to reinforce the importance of sometimes (having to be selective due to costs) purchasing b.m.d certificates, Australian certificates in particular have an enormous amount of information for only $20 and an immediate download. Marriage and birth certificates are great as in most cases the information provided is fairly reliable as it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. Although I learnt the hard way that it always pays to remember that death certificate are second hand, based on what the informant was told or thinks they know. Some children for example, aren’t always told the truth…
So to that end I purchased the Victorian death certificate of James Junior (if you pm me your email address I will forward this to you at no charge) and one interesting piece of information was that this time James senior’s occupation is now listed as Royal Navy Officer…
So…a carpenter in the Navy maybe? That opens a whole new avenue of exploration…
I believe that it’s likely that either/both James and Martha died not long after the birth of James Junior, which would help explain why no obvious siblings have been found …no records other than the baptism of your James show them together…a second marriage for one of them possibly…
Please don’t take any of the above as criticism, it is because we love doing this that we want to help people make discoveries and learn more about their ancestors without ensuring as much as possible that they are on the right path…
Kind regards, Jo
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Please don’t take any of the above as criticism, it is because we love doing this that we want to help people make discoveries and learn more about their ancestors without ensuring as much as possible that they are on the right path…
Kind regards, Jo
I totally agree with that Jo :)
Just adding - James juniors Portsea marriage had his father as a Builder.
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Hello again dear Rootschat Members.
Regarding jomcd967s impressive list of nothing more than simply names of James Hills potential 17 listings, the only ones which appear even remotely vaguely relevant, are that of
#1 James Hills, 47, of Sth Benfleet, buried 1843,
and
#2
James Hills buried 1828 Gravesend Kent
and
James Hill, 65, buried 1849 Chatham Kent.
Of course I would love to hear from you, but ONLY if you can definitely confirm any of the above James Hills was the son of my 2nd great grandfather, Bap 8 Nov 1816 at St Georges at Gravesend Kent, as the son of James Hills and Martha Emery, as I have confirmed from Australian Death records. Otherwise I am not interested in wasting my time on your red herrings potentials.
Of course Rosie, I also really appreciate your time and expertise and input to my family req-seasrch quest, however as implied, I am only keen to receive confirmed info, regarding my 2nd great grandfather, confirmed to have died in in Sep 1885 near Colac Victoria, and was born to James Hills and Martha Emery from Chatham in the early 1800s.
Cheers with many thanks,
Mixo Sydenham
Via Warragul Vic Aust
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Mixo,
I’m afraid you’re missing the point entirely. The ONLY way to confirm anything is to go down all avenues, starting with the most likely based on KNOWN information and cross them off until you find what you are looking for. Checking all sources, using primary sources as much as possible.
Most have us spend decades hunting down certain brick walls. It takes time and patience and an open mind. So I wish you luck with gathering meaningless names and dates and you can convince yourself that you have done all this research and traced your family back generations.
The “impressive list of nothing” was in response to your repeated assertion that “the only relevant death record of any James Hill born 1788 located to date, is that of James passing at St Botolphs Hadstock Essex”. Obviously that assertion is incorrect.
And I will not waste anymore of my time and patience and generosity in helping someone that does not want help and only wants convenient answers placed in their lap. You only want “confirmed” information, but seem to have no concept of how that confirmation occurs.
Good luck with your search, I’m off to offer assistance to those that are serious about genealogical research.
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I wanted to reinforce the importance of sometimes (having to be selective due to costs) purchasing b.m.d certificates, Australian certificates in particular have an enormous amount of information for only $20 and an immediate download. Marriage and birth certificates are great as in most cases the information provided is fairly reliable as it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. Although I learnt the hard way that it always pays to remember that death certificate are second hand, based on what the informant was told or thinks they know. Some children for example, aren’t always told the truth…
So to that end I purchased the Victorian death certificate of James Junior (if you pm me your email address I will forward this to you at no charge) and one interesting piece of information was that this time James senior’s occupation is now listed as Royal Navy Officer…
So…a carpenter in the Navy maybe? That opens a whole new avenue of exploration…
That was kind of you Jo :)
Rosie