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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: rogerb on Tuesday 11 January 22 15:48 GMT (UK)
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I have been reviewing some old brick walls and I have been looking at Mary Eliza Morley b1832 in Bristol. From wedding certs and censuses I have ascertained that her father was John Morley, a mariner.
I found a Baptism record which matched this which showed the mother as Sarah.
But I couldn't find a matching marriage.
Now today, I have found a marriage on FindMyPast between John Morley, a mariner, and Sarah Jones in Carmarthen in 1822.
I checked for Morley births in Carmarthen but there were none.
Is it too much of a leap to think that this pair moved from Carmarthen to Bristol? I know its not that far, but as we have probably all seen, people didn't really move too far from home 200 years ago. The dates, names and occupation match up, but the location is worrying me.
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Carmarthen and Bristol were both ports, so for a mariner to move from one to the other is not unusual or unexpected.
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People either travel extensively or barely move at all. I have an ancestor who was born in Middlesex in 1810. By the 1840's the document trail covers Kent, Southampton, Suffolk, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Northumberland and in the early 1850's heads to Norfolk.
His children were born mostly in the 1840's and ended up all over the world including Canada, America, Italy and Germany from the early 1860's.
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Carmarthen and Bristol were both ports, so for a mariner to move from one to the other is not unusual or unexpected.
I agree with this, in fact people moved about far more than you would imagine, it is a mistake to think they didn’t.
Where does Mary say she was born in the census?
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Thanks Alpine Cottage. I quickly googled Carmarthen Quay and there were a couple of sentences that were quite interesting
"The surviving quay walls were built in the 19th century. Trade through the port increased rapidly in the 1840s (the last decade before Carmarthen joined the railway network). In response, the Bristol Steam Navigation Company decided in 1846 to dedicate another steamer to its service between Carmarthen and Bristol."
So presumably there was a shipping route between Carmarthen and Bristol in the 1820s. I read the last sentence to mean they already had a ship plying that route and in 1846 they put another one into service.
Looks like I will have a google around the shipping company.
Roger
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So presumably there was a shipping route between Carmarthen and Bristol in the 1820s. I read the last sentence to mean they already had a ship plying that route and in 1846 they put another one into service.
Yes agree, quite possibly :)
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Where does Mary say she was born in the census?
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In the 1841, if it her, she is from outside the county (of Sussex)
In 1851 and 1861 she says she is from Bristol (Living in Brighton). But in the 1871 and 1881 she is down as being from Brighton
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Hubby has an ancestor who lived in Berwick-upon-Tweed, his spouse was living in Newcastle (born in Suffolk) and they travelled to London to marry in St James in 1788. The family owned packet boats, were involved in the salmon trade and his older brother was a distiller in Soho so he had the opportunity but still a fair distance just to be trendy (I suspect)
Are there any likely births for Sarah around Carmarthen, although being a Jones there are likely to be several I imagine
I would mark the marriage as a strong possibility
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As others have said, there was plenty of passenger and packet shipping between South Wales and Bristol, before the railways. One of my ancestors used to travel regularly between Swansea and London in the early C19th (we have his diaries) and this was the regular route. Post on then via Bath and other stops along what is roughly now the A4/A40...
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Are there any likely births for Sarah around Carmarthen, although being a Jones there are likely to be several I imagine
I would mark the marriage as a strong possibility
Not sure yet - probably look for John Morley first...
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Have you found John Morley on the censuses? Did he die when Mary was young or did he live to the 1851 census which gave more precise birthplaces?
I have a Warrington born ancestor who lived in Norfolk in the 1500s, he mentioned his home town in his will. I also have an ancestor who lived in Colchester in the 1500s and her will mentions her Lincolnshire family, plus I have many more recent ancestors who moved over the country before 1900.
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Maybe of interest
Taken from the Carmarthen page on genuki.org.uk
"while its intercourse with Bristol and other towns, in the importation of goods of various descriptions for the supply of the neighbouring country, adds another important feature to its commerce. Vessels of three hundred tons burden can float up to the town, where there is a large and convenient quay. "
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"In the 1841, if it her, she is from outside the county (of Sussex)"
There seems to be some uncertainty here.
You have a marriage certificate for Mary Eliza MORLEY, b about 1832.
Can you list all the information on her marriage certificate please.
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Have you found John Morley on the censuses? Did he die when Mary was young or did he live to the 1851 census which gave more precise birthplaces?
I have a Warrington born ancestor who lived in Norfolk in the 1500s, he mentioned his home town in his will. I also have an ancestor who lived in Colchester in the 1500s and her will mentions her Lincolnshire family, plus I have many more recent ancestors who moved over the country before 1900.
Unfortunately I have never managed to find a census/death/remarriage of either John or Sarah Morley. And looking a Bristol Baptisms of the same date range, it looks like there may have been 2 or 3 other children - but again, I have not found any subsequent records.
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"In the 1841, if it her, she is from outside the county (of Sussex)"
There seems to be some uncertainty here.
You have a marriage certificate for Mary Eliza MORLEY, b about 1832.
Can you list all the information on her marriage certificate please.
Regarding the MC - I can't find it at the moment. You know when you move house and you still have unopened boxes several years later...
But I do remember that her father was John Morley, deceased, Mariner. In fact, until the find at the beginning of this thread, this was the only evidence of his occupation that I had.
Regarding the 1841 census, you are right - there is some doubt. There is a Mary Morley of about the right age living in Hellingly, but born outside the county. She is living with an elderly couple Mr and Mrs Parsons. I have not been able to establish a link between the Parsons with anyone associated with the Morley family so I don't know why she would be living there. But I can't find any other Mary Morleys in the 1851 census, other than my one. Then in 1851 my Mary Morley is living in Brighton.
Thanks for your interest
Roger
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Maybe of interest
Taken from the Carmarthen page on genuki.org.uk
"while its intercourse with Bristol and other towns, in the importation of goods of various descriptions for the supply of the neighbouring country, adds another important feature to its commerce. Vessels of three hundred tons burden can float up to the town, where there is a large and convenient quay. "
Thanks - it means that the leap between Carmarthen and Bristol isn't as random as I first thought
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I have found a marriage on FindMyPast between John Morley, a mariner, and Sarah Jones in Carmarthen in 1822.
I checked for Morley births in Carmarthen but there were none.
Is it too much of a leap to think that this pair moved from Carmarthen to Bristol? I know its not that far, but as we have probably all seen, people didn't really move too far from home 200 years ago. The dates, names and occupation match up, but the location is worrying me.
At that time I think the convention that marriages took place at the bride's church was usually observed. Jones is the commonest Welsh surname, so that fits with Carmarthen.
In the 1850s my paternal ancestors upped sticks from Devon and went to southern Ireland, where they farmed for about 25 years, but clearly stayed in touch with 'home'. When the patriarch died in 1877, some children had died or settled. But the remainder chose to return to Devon; George married a grocer's shop-assistant in Kingsbridge, while that grocer went to Dungarvan to marry one of the women. That's a lot further than Bristol to Carmarthen - and he would have to have gone to Exeter or Plymouth first !
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EDWARD Morley Bapt 24 Sep 1826 Redcliffe, St Mary, Bristol, Glous
Age 0, Parents JOHN/SARAH
Father a Mariner
Abode St Nicholas
(Anc and on F/S also)
Also a possible burial for Edward age 2 1828 Barking, Essex
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Re: How much proof do you need?
In my case all available proof.
That may seem like a simple answer but in reality I keep looking for proof, and additional information all the time.
Family history is a hobby that keeps on giving, paper collections of records keep becoming available to the public, whether they are records that have been in private hands being donated to county archives or public records that have become availble with time. The advent of the internet has also made records that were available but inaccessible, now accessible to all, even if that means paying a small price (virtually any fee charge is more than likely to be far cheaper that travelling to visit the archive in person).
I am continually updating the evidence I hold for my research, that may be something as simple as downloading a baptism or burial register image to replace a transcript from an old book, or it could be a wall plaque I have been able to photograph in a church I have not been able to visit previously.
Every single record in my family history database is a work in progress, in my eyes in a similar way I have updated and enlarged the work my grandfather left.
I hope one of my sons or my grandchildren will carry my work & my gandfather's work on in the future for their descendants.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Guy - continuing research means you can also spot mistakes you may have made in the past as well!
Back to my case, there is a John Morley born in the same Parish as the marriage with Sarah Jones about 29 years previously. The father's name is William. But I can find no suitable marriage for William, nor any potential siblings for John.
As the saying goes, when one door opens, another one slams in your face!
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Thanks Guy - continuing research means you can also spot mistakes you may have made in the past as well!
Back to my case, there is a John Morley born in the same Parish as the marriage with Sarah Jones about 29 years previously. The father's name is William. But I can find no suitable marriage for William, nor any potential siblings for John.
As the saying goes, when one door opens, another one slams in your face!
Have you thought that a family living on a barge might have arrived in Bristol via the Kennet and Avon canal?
Furthermore; the surname "Morley" is a place near Leeds, West Riding, Yorkshire, and I see from Genuki that there is also a place named Morley in Derbyshire. Both counties had canals that could have brought the bride and the groom together.
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I've had to do some research when a groom has changed occupations and I needed to prove that the person I originally put on my tree as a salesman and member of a manufacturing metal working company up in Aberdeen changed his occupation later in life and became a photographer in Sunderland.
The link between the company that made signs for the railway and also manufactured its own miners lamp was that the first photographs consisted of a metal base and the salesman ancestor had experience of working with metal.
"Louis Daguerre developed the metal based daguerreotype process, the first publicly announced and commercially viable photographic process. The daguerreotype required only minutes of exposure in the camera, and produced clear, finely detailed results. The details were introduced to the world in 1839, a date generally accepted as the birth year of practical photography."