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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Monty Dog on Monday 10 January 22 16:22 GMT (UK)

Title: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: Monty Dog on Monday 10 January 22 16:22 GMT (UK)
 Charles married Alice Holland in 1832, they had several children, Samuel Foden Holt b 1834 was my
Gt Grandad. On the 1841 and 1851 censuses there are 4 girls but I can find no trace of them after this. Apart from Ann who married George Duncan in 1859.

Alice died and Charles married Elizabeth Cunnah nee Jones on 6 Oct 1855 in Liverpool, but I can’t find them on the 1861 or following censuses. Nor anywhere else. Guess I could be looking in the wrong places, help/suggestions welcome.



Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 10 January 22 16:26 GMT (UK)
Could you please name the girls you want help with and their year and place of birth
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 10 January 22 17:36 GMT (UK)
You have posted on the Common Room board so we have no clue as to which county any of the people you mention were born or were living in 1851

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On the 1841 and 1851 censuses there are 4 girls
  Without names and birthyears/birthplaces we cannot help.  Rosie has already asked for further info

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Apart from Ann who married George Duncan in 1859.

That marriage was in Manchester & she is shown as Annie Holt aged 18.  Charles Holt is shown as a joiner on the marriage cert
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 10 January 22 17:49 GMT (UK)
1841 for Leigh - all b in county

Charles Holt    30 joiner
Alice  25
Samuel  7
Ellen  5
Elizabeth  1
HO107 Piece 513/12 Folio 37 Page 14




Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 10 January 22 18:02 GMT (UK)
Charles married Alice Holland in 1832,
They also married in Manchester

There is a Charles & Alice in Lemon Street, Leigh in 1841 with son Samuel 7 and 2 dtrs Ellen 5, Elizabeth 1.

That family are in Norfolk in 1851 - Charles, Alice, Samuel 17, Elizabeth 11, Ann 8, Alice 4, Mary Jane 1.  H0107/1767 f507 p4


Sorry Carole, I have duplicated 1841  :)
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 10 January 22 18:04 GMT (UK)
HOLT, MARY  JANE     mmn HOLLAND 
GRO Reference: 1850  June Quarter in WISBECH UNION  Volume 14  Page 179
 
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 10 January 22 18:09 GMT (UK)
There is also another Charles & Alice Holt in Rochdale Lancs in 1841 & 1851

The Charles Holt who married in Liverpool 1855 was a joiner - father Samuel Foden Holt
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 10 January 22 18:14 GMT (UK)
I saw that the Liverpool marriage named Charles father as Samuel Foden Holt but have not found anything for Samuel Foden Holt bn 1834.

I am going to stop for today Carole, hopefully we will get some answers from Monty Dog  :)
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: Pennines on Monday 10 January 22 18:29 GMT (UK)
HOLT, MARY  JANE     mmn HOLLAND 
GRO Reference: 1850  June Quarter in WISBECH UNION  Volume 14  Page 179

The family are indeed living in Wisbech in 1851 (on the site I am looking at - the Genealogist - it says 'Geographically Cambridge'.)

Charles born Worsley. Useful to know. However must have gone back to Lancs to marry in Liverpool in 1855.

The children all born Tyldesley, except Samuel - born Worsley and the baby Mary Jane born ?Upwell Isle? -- not Lancs anyway, presumably Cambridgeshire.
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 10 January 22 18:38 GMT (UK)
Baptism Eccles St Mary 19.2.1834 - Samuel Holt son of Charles & Alice - Charles was a carpenter

No middle name of Foden
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: Pennines on Monday 10 January 22 18:57 GMT (UK)
Good find Carole. The father of Charles was Samuel Foden Holt, according to the marriage of Charles in Liverpool. Looks like it may have been a maiden name from further back.

I am beginning to think the family emigrated - maybe to Australia/NZ where there are no census records. A 'blanket' search isn't finding him for me at the moment after the marriage.



Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 10 January 22 19:21 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Cunnah/Jones appears to possibly have had Welsh connections - she was 28 when she married in 1855 but previously married John Jones in 1846 in St Asaph

Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 January 22 08:31 GMT (UK)

The family are indeed living in Wisbech in 1851 (on the site I am looking at - the Genealogist - it says 'Geographically Cambridge'.)


1851 Census has them living in the parish of Upwell Isle - Fen.  This area straddles both counties https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CAM/Upwell
Pennines is correct that it is normally classed as Cambridgeshire
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: Monty Dog on Tuesday 11 January 22 09:34 GMT (UK)
Morning, thanks for all the information.

I've found a marriage for an Elizabeth Holt to John Ratcliffe 6 Oct 1866 which looks promising. It was at St John Church, Manchester.

Ann married George Duncan 18 Dec 1859, I have details of this family.

There’s a Charles, son of Samuel and Ann b 21 Feb 1808. (Lancs OPC) I  know his marriage to Elizabeth would suggest 1811 but as he was so much older maybe he knocked a few years off.

Seems very likely Foden is an earlier surname. Hadn’t thought of emigration.

Samuel Foden Holt, my gt grandad,  son of Charles and Ellen, went to Ireland, married Eliza Galbraith 1853, then Susan Thompson, gt grandma, 1874, he died 12 Jun 1899.

So there’s just Ellen, Alice and Mary Jane to find now.

How these families do grow, found a brother and sister for Susan Thompson last week which gave her 22 nieces and nephews.

Thank you so much for your time and help. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 11 January 22 14:56 GMT (UK)

Seems very likely Foden is an earlier surname. Hadn’t thought of emigration.

Samuel Foden Holt, my gt grandad,  son of Charles and Ellen, went to Ireland, married Eliza Galbraith 1853, then Susan Thompson, gt grandma, 1874, he died 12 Jun 1899.


Not that this helps with finding out where his middle name came from on his probate record middle name spelt FOWDEN on his will he signs as Samuel Holt

Probate of the Will of Samuel Fowden Holt late of Aghafoy County Donegal, Railway Inspector died 12 Jan 1899 granted at Londonderry to widow Susan Holt of Aghafoy

1899 Probate http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014911/005014911_00117.pdf

1899 Will
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=223344

If you haven't got them both marriages & his death entry are available to view on https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Title: Re: Charles Holt b 1811
Post by: Monty Dog on Tuesday 11 January 22 19:43 GMT (UK)
Thank you for info on Samuel.
Spent most of the day searching for anything on Ellen, Elizabeth and Mary Jane.
Ellen was baptised twice,
1. Top Chapel : Countess of Huntington's Connexion, Tyldesley on 11 Dec 1836.
2.  St George, Tyldesley on 12 Feb 1837

There’s an Elizabeth marries John Ratcliffe, 6 Oct 1866, father Charles, joiner. Can find no children or family trees on Ancestry.

Found nothing about Mary Jane.

Think I’ll call it a day on the girls, the Foden connection and finding Samuel Foden Holt, (gtx3 Grandad). Pleased with what has been found, onward and upward with the next elusive ancestor.
Thanks for your help.