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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: manukarik on Thursday 06 January 22 22:42 GMT (UK)

Title: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: manukarik on Thursday 06 January 22 22:42 GMT (UK)
Have been looking through 1921 Census entries and it took a while to work out how to access the different pages (eg the front page). Was going to post questions for help with some of the abbreviations, eg S E & C Ry ( South East & Chatham Railway) and B.A. Station, Old Kent Road (Bricklayers Arms Station), until I finally worked these out for myself!

My question is, is the digitization of the Census complete or are there missing books? There are a few people I just cannot find. Hopefully they'll appear in time ...
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 06 January 22 22:46 GMT (UK)
Could be just transcription errors, all newly released census takes a while to iron out.

I’m trying to resist the temptation for a few weeks at least.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 06 January 22 22:46 GMT (UK)
Never any guarantees  that a particular address will be there.
Nor that the handwriting is legible
Nor that the transcription is what it should be.

Most of the "I can't find" examples I've seen today have been operator error.

Pauline
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: manukarik on Thursday 06 January 22 22:51 GMT (UK)
jc26red  PaulineJ - thanks!

Pleased with what I've found so far. Knowing bits of family history and fallouts, just wanted to place people who left home at a young age. I know who my grandmother went to live with, but can find neither my grandmother nor her aunt (and husband).

Patience is a virtue, I guess!
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 06 January 22 22:57 GMT (UK)
3 grandparents found so far - 1 is proving elusive but will keep looking. 
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: manukarik on Thursday 06 January 22 23:05 GMT (UK)
Good Luck and Happy Hunting, Milliepede!
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Friday 07 January 22 02:40 GMT (UK)
I've offered in excess of a hundred census transcription corrections to FindMyPast for one family in the last 12 months and based on another evening of research I can see another 100 offered before the end of January.  I don't know if I'm just unlucky or if the transcriptions are based on one entry on an image (I'm talking all census years here not just the 1921).

I've seen Salop as plain as day on the image transcribed as Surrey, a village in Lincs indexed as Scotland (and therefore the image isn't displayed) and surnames mashed so badly there is no hope of finding them short of trawling image by image.

I keep seeing the same excuse they give about time pressures and resources but never a response as to how that applies to the census that have been available for years, I'm ashamed and feel pretty stupid for subscribing to them for as long as I have to be honest. As for the 1921 I won't be bothering, the ER's for that period in the area I'm researching are pretty useful and though they miss children out for obvious reasons I can account for them through a variety of other sources without losing what little hair I have battling yet more transcription howlers. 
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Friday 07 January 22 10:19 GMT (UK)
  And do any of your corrections get dealt with? Many of mine never are, and I do know the rules for transcribing. If I can see an entry is dubious, I don't send it in.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 07 January 22 10:23 GMT (UK)
I've had corrections accepted at FindMyPast.

Not many submitted recently though
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 07 January 22 11:05 GMT (UK)
With this census I'm just collecting the original images I'm not collecting or correcting transcriptions. Out of my four grandparents, two of the surnames are incorrectly transcribed by one letter but I managed to find them. A couple of people of minor interest are missing but most people I've looked for on the free search are findable.   


C
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Lisajb on Friday 07 January 22 11:42 GMT (UK)
I couldn't find my gran but her maiden surname is frequently mistranscribed - Tandy.

Found her by using *andy
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: groom on Friday 07 January 22 13:10 GMT (UK)
I couldn't find my grandparents although I knew exactly where they should be. I found them in the end by a first name, year of birth, area  and then a wildcard for the surname. It had been transcribed incorrectly.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: tomatillo on Friday 07 January 22 16:58 GMT (UK)
I also had difficulties finding mine due to transcription errors. They were fairly common names and I couldn't really see why the transcriptions were wrong e.g. Norman (first name) was Porman etc. Are they done by AI? It looked to me as if they hadn't been read by someone/thing with familiarity with the locations and the names of the time.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: manukarik on Friday 07 January 22 17:29 GMT (UK)
One mystery solved and 1921 Census entry found. Great great aunt's married name in 1920 = HAHNEL and in 1921 = ARNOLD. Maybe Hahnel sounded too German? Still haven't found my Grandmother. She would have been about 12 in 1921 and is not listed with her parents. A mystery!
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Friday 07 January 22 18:16 GMT (UK)
I also had difficulties finding mine due to transcription errors. They were fairly common names and I couldn't really see why the transcriptions were wrong e.g. Norman (first name) was Porman etc. Are they done by AI? It looked to me as if they hadn't been read by someone/thing with familiarity with the locations and the names of the time.
I seem to remember some earlier censuses were transcribed in the subcontinent (India) ? If that has happened again I am not surprised if there are plenty of errors.  I think it is unfamiliarity with English script rather than the actual names ?
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: emeraldcity on Friday 07 January 22 21:15 GMT (UK)
I also had difficulties finding mine due to transcription errors. They were fairly common names and I couldn't really see why the transcriptions were wrong e.g. Norman (first name) was Porman etc. Are they done by AI? It looked to me as if they hadn't been read by someone/thing with familiarity with the locations and the names of the time.
I seem to remember some earlier censuses were transcribed in the subcontinent (India) ? If that has happened again I am not surprised if there are plenty of errors.  I think it is unfamiliarity with English script rather than the actual names ?

Was the same again this time, transcribed in India: https://cdn.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/board-minutes-2021-04.pdf
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: antonymark on Saturday 08 January 22 01:13 GMT (UK)
I also had difficulties finding mine due to transcription errors. They were fairly common names and I couldn't really see why the transcriptions were wrong e.g. Norman (first name) was Porman etc. Are they done by AI? It looked to me as if they hadn't been read by someone/thing with familiarity with the locations and the names of the time.
I seem to remember some earlier censuses were transcribed in the subcontinent (India) ? If that has happened again I am not surprised if there are plenty of errors.  I think it is unfamiliarity with English script rather than the actual names ?

Was the same again this time, transcribed in India: https://cdn.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/board-minutes-2021-04.pdf



Ah, this would explain a lot!  ;D

I have yet to purchase a record but I've had an enjoyable couple of evenings learning as much as I can from the search results.

The transcribers seem to have trouble with my McIlroy lot. So far I have found them as McThoy, McIlory, McIbroy and McFlroy. It will be interesting to see the actual entries when I start making purchases to see how they came to those versions.

A little mystery at the moment is my 10 year old maternal grandfather who doesn't seem to be with his father, stepmother and siblings. Searching around hasn't brought him to light yet. He could well be strangely transcribed living elsewhere for some reason or I did wonder if he is at home as expected and has not made it onto the transcription. I had this I think with a great uncle on the 1939 register.

Tony.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: 3473peter on Saturday 08 January 22 10:34 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 08 January 22 10:41 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?

While we cannot provide a lookup, we maybe able to help locate if you provide sibling and parental names and ages
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 08 January 22 11:13 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?

Have you located his parents  :-\
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: coombs on Saturday 08 January 22 11:58 GMT (UK)
I did hear about the confidential census return just before the census was released in 2022, could this explain some missing people, they apparently gave their census return to the enumerator in an envelope.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Jon_ni on Saturday 08 January 22 12:03 GMT (UK)
Quote
Was the same again this time, transcribed in India

Indeed was done by their 'longtime transcription partner' SBL in India per one of their videos who have 'transcribed 247 Findmypast projects since 2015'. Also done in a few columns to ensure confidentiality the info pre release before the 100 yrs (one person got left part with names & transcribed, another the right). https://fb.watch/amCFCCqx_l/ about 25-26 mins in. Likely explains some of the errors, especially for locations but guess would cost even more if they had done in UK.

When Ancestry eventually get the images from National Archives they will presumably be able to transcribe whole pages but will still I'm sure be done in India for cost reasons. Don't think the quality of the 1939 register transcriptions on Ancestry are any better, worse if anything, and if the street is not on the page (dittoed or blacked out) they leave blank and don't look back to previous or next one.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Jon_ni on Saturday 08 January 22 12:06 GMT (UK)
Quote
I did hear about the confidential census return just before the census was released in 2022, could this explain some missing people, they apparently gave their census return to the enumerator in an envelope
.

Think that was just to restrict from the eyes of other household / appartment members. They submitted their own return rather than providing the info to the Head of House. The Enumerator still got to see, mentioned on front page of returns with address and instructions and in Enumerator's, he had to take details from then then transcribe in red ink in the blank spaces on the household return.

http://www2.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/TNA%20Census%20-%20Other%20(by%20date)/1921&active=yes&mno=3210&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=49
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: normamac on Saturday 08 January 22 12:12 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?
.

There is a David with a Ada Mary Ann Blair born 1890 canning town essex. Is this his mother?

Norma.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Sunday 09 January 22 17:58 GMT (UK)
I couldn't find my grandparents although I knew exactly where they should be. I found them in the end by a first name, year of birth, area  and then a wildcard for the surname. It had been transcribed incorrectly.

After trying various possible mis-transcriptions I located my father's family in Cheltenham where I expected to find them.  They had been filed as Farr (not surprisingly).  Having done that, I spent £3.50 to see the details (nothing new actually) but I intended to report the transcription error, as it also gave his birthplace as Middlesex instead of Midleton, Co.Cork (Ireland).

The Help told me to click the 'Report an Error' button, which I couldn't find, unless it is attached to the View Transcription, in which case I am asked to spend another £2.50.  Is that right?  If so, I strongly object !!
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Blue70 on Sunday 09 January 22 19:55 GMT (UK)
I couldn't find my grandparents although I knew exactly where they should be. I found them in the end by a first name, year of birth, area  and then a wildcard for the surname. It had been transcribed incorrectly.

After trying various possible mis-transcriptions I located my father's family in Cheltenham where I expected to find them.  They had been filed as Farr (not surprisingly).  Having done that, I spent £3.50 to see the details (nothing new actually) but I intended to report the transcription error, as it also gave his birthplace as Middlesex instead of Midleton, Co.Cork (Ireland).

The Help told me to click the 'Report an Error' button, which I couldn't find, unless it is attached to the View Transcription, in which case I am asked to spend another £2.50.  Is that right?  If so, I strongly object !!

They want us to help them but we are charged to do so it is odd and one of the reasons why I'm only buying original images. If anyone can see a way to submit a correction while only on the image let us know. I looked but couldn't find a way.


C
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: JayG on Sunday 09 January 22 20:26 GMT (UK)
This tells you how to report transcription errors without having purchased the transcript.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/4415870561041-how-was-the-1921-census-transcribed-
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: Blue70 on Sunday 09 January 22 20:42 GMT (UK)
This tells you how to report transcription errors without having purchased the transcript.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/4415870561041-how-was-the-1921-census-transcribed-

Thanks for this I've sent my corrections.


C
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: 3473peter on Tuesday 11 January 22 11:28 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?

Have you located his parents  :-\
Yes they were living Silvertown West Ham Essex,
Parents, David Blair b1886 Silvertown West Ham Essex d1970 married Ada Mary Ann How/e 25/12/1919, born 1890 Canning Town West Ham Essex, Died 1968. Thank you and hope it helps, Peter.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: 3473peter on Tuesday 11 January 22 11:35 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?

While we cannot provide a lookup, we maybe able to help locate if you provide sibling and parental names and ages
Hi and thank you, Father David Blair b 1886 Silvertown West Ham Essex d 1970 Married 25/12/1919 Canning Town West Ham Essex Ada Mary Ann How/e born 1890 Canning Town West Ham Essex, died 1968, Living 1921 Silvertown West Ham Essex/London, hope it helps, thank you, Peter.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: 3473peter on Tuesday 11 January 22 11:49 GMT (UK)
I have been searching FindMyPast 1921 Census for my Uncle, David William Blair, Born November 1920, West Ham Essex (Greater London) but unable to find?
.

There is a David with a Ada Mary Ann Blair born 1890 canning town essex. Is this his mother?

Norma.
Yes, That is correct, thank you, Peter.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: WAS800 on Sunday 16 January 22 12:38 GMT (UK)
I have been searching for people living at  5 to 21 (odd nos) Benson Street, Leeds. These numbers do not show up in the address search, nor as individuals known to be at these addresses in the 1919, 1922 electoral registers. Is it that these schedules are missing from the census?
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 16 January 22 15:27 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat WAS800.

It would appear that 1901 census is the latest census where those numbers appear.  1891 has a much larger number of households.
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: oldfashionedgirl on Monday 17 January 22 17:04 GMT (UK)
I'd like to thank Groom for her great tip on trying to find missing people.

I was trying to find my Grandmother and her family. Despite having comprehensive info on them through birth and death records which narrowed it down to a 4/5 year period I just couldn't find any of the 8 of them.

Having read the above on mis-transcribing I searched with my GGFs christian and middle name and birth year, leaving the surname blank, in the area where I knew where they lived and there they all were.

Their surname of Jenner had been transcribed as Jermar !

Cheers Groom
Title: Re: 1921 Census Missing People
Post by: groom on Monday 17 January 22 19:22 GMT (UK)
I'd like to thank Groom for her great tip on trying to find missing people.



Glad that it worked.