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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:25 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:25 GMT (UK)
Hi there,

Happy New Year

Was wondering if anyone had advice on tracking down someone’s birth who had a very common name.

I have both his death cert and burial records and the 1911 census, however the burial and death cert state different ages (70 and 73) and have been confirmed to be correct based on address.

His marriage cert says ‘full’ so I cannot work out the correct date of birth.

Unfortunately John Farrell is such a common name and I am unsure of his mother’s name.

Name: John Farrell
Father: John Farrell
Marriage: 31st May 1903
Death: 10th Sep 1946
Burial: Glasnevin Cemetery
1911 Census: Phibsboro Road

Any help is gratefully appreciated

Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:29 GMT (UK)
To further state, I’ve looked through irishgenelogy to scan through various years but there are just so many of the same name
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:36 GMT (UK)
Which John Farrell is he in 1911 census?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsborough_Road/49196/ (age 32 so born c1879)
or
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsborough_Road/49124/ (age 46 born c1865)

If 70/73 in 1946 then born c1876/1873

There's also a John Farrell in that street in 1911 but age 50-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsboro_Road/47078/
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:50 GMT (UK)
It is confirmed to be this one:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsborough_Road/49196/

However, all the dates don’t match up on any, even though all are confirmed.

Could it be perhaps he never had his birth certificate and the date was made up?

Age based on census: 1878
Age based on death certificate: 1873
Age based on burial: 1876
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:52 GMT (UK)
Have you found him in 1901 census yet?

Since you say he married in 1903-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsborough_Road/49196/ (age 32 so born c1879)

Birth of daughter Ellen gives mother's maiden name as Devine-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01807/1707874.pdf
Which eventually finds the marriage of John & Brigid- 3 May 1903- not 31 May as in your original post-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10237/5725492.pdf
additional bit of information is that his father John is deceased

If you go to Family search and put in John Farrell & Dublin & father John Farrell then use buttons at top to narrow down the search (collection- Irish births & baptisms, birth- 1870s) you'll be able to check birth certificate of any possible matches.
There are also many Dublin R.C. baptisms, etc. here-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:53 GMT (UK)
Marriage - residence 3 Phibsboro
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10237/5725492.pdf

1901 3.1 Phibsborough
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsborough/1335545/

Could Ellen be his mother?
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:55 GMT (UK)
People didn't worry about exact dates of birth/ages until probably after WWI. Many people didn't know their birth details. My father-in-law, born pre-WWI, never remembered his own date of birth or year but knew it was 'not long after Hogmanay.'
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all the help.

I have his wife (Bridget/Brigid Devine) side all sorted back multiple generations.

All his children have been accounted for.
Joseph, Ellen, Margaret, Mary Elizabeth, John, William, Brendan C, Kathleen and James.

Unfortunately I can’t find him in the 1903 census - there seemed to a lot of John Farrell’s who also have the same father ‘John Farrell’.
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 09:58 GMT (UK)
People didn't worry about exact dates of birth/ages until probably after WWI. Many people didn't know their birth details. My father-in-law, born pre-WWI, never remembered his own date of birth or year but knew it was 'not long after Hogmanay.'

This makes a lot of sense! Would add up in this case too.
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:08 GMT (UK)
I can only see one John Farrell/Ellen marriage so just to note
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11177/8095181.pdf
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:13 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the help,

The marriage was to Bridget Devine

Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:23 GMT (UK)
We already have the marriage to Bridget.

I was referring to Ellen Farrell in the censuses who might be the mother. Just for you to note that marriage as it was the only one in the relevant period I could see.
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:28 GMT (UK)
We already have the marriage to Bridget.

I was referring to Ellen Farrell in the censuses who might be the mother. Just for you to note that marriage as it was the only one in the relevant period I could see.

My bad. Really appreciate the help! Thank you
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:30 GMT (UK)
Oh it can be quite confusing. As you say it is a common name  :)


Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:33 GMT (UK)
Oh it can be quite confusing. As you say it is a common name  :)

Even managed to confuse myself and I am the one asking 😂 Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:53 GMT (UK)
Sticking with Ellen Farrell as possible mother of John-
Could this be her based on address (although age is out)?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05352/4491088.pdf
Here's 1911 census-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsboro_Street/46498/
Wonder would she have been buried in same place as John Farrell?
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:05 GMT (UK)
Sticking with Ellen Farrell as possible mother of John-
Could this be her based on address (although age is out)?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05352/4491088.pdf
Here's 1911 census-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Phibsboro_Street/46498/
Wonder would she have been buried in same place as John Farrell?

The area matches up totally! So it could very well be.

Unfortunately to make matters even worse, John (JNR) is buried in a paupers grave, so I only have his address and no other information. You've given me the idea to search Ellen and John SNR in Glasnevin records as that could tell more.

Woah this is confusing and you're so helpful!
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:10 GMT (UK)
Good find, aghadowey and matches up.
There are baptisms at St Michans
Owen Farrel February 1878
Patrick Farrell December 1880
Which seem to fit with the marriage - Ellen’s surname has variations.

John snr - father Owen is deceased on marriage and John is a Porter  :-\ so links are tenuous.

Could young Owen become John?
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:16 GMT (UK)
Good find, aghadowey and matches up.
There are baptisms at St Michans
Owen Farrel February 1878
Patrick Farrell December 1880
Which seem to fit with the marriage - Ellen’s surname has variations.

John snr - father Owen is deceased on marriage and John is a Porter  :-\ so links are tenuous.

Could young Owen become John?

Not sure about this- Owen's birth registration lists mother as Anne even though baptisms says Ellen  :-\
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02966/2086564.pdf

ADDED- Patrick's baptism lists mother as Ellen Anne so still in contention!
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:24 GMT (UK)
Patrick's birth registration with yet another variation of Ellen's maiden name!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02853/2045338.pdf
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:33 GMT (UK)
? ELLEN FARRELL
Glasnevin - Burial   DUBLIN   1912   50   FEMALE   
Title: Re: Help with a very common name
Post by: denzillacey on Wednesday 19 October 22 11:52 BST (UK)
I want to thank you for the help earlier this year on this matter.

I have discovered the Ellen Farrell who died in 1912 is the correct one based upon address.

Based on the census, it looks like Ellen couldn’t read/write - so I’m guessing that could be why the various misspelling of her name occurred.

I still haven’t managed to find John, but as you say - he could have been Owen.

Thank you again for the help, will keep trucking on