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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ThoseBefore on Wednesday 05 January 22 00:33 GMT (UK)

Title: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: ThoseBefore on Wednesday 05 January 22 00:33 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

I hope someone can give me some guidance here, as this is making me quite agitated.

On my family history website I have a profile for someone born c.1870 in Australia. She was involved in an interesting court case. As part of the contemporary newspaper reporting, it was said of her that she was half Australian Aboriginal. On my website I said in a note that she was half Australian Aboriginal.

I was contacted by a member of her extended family to say that this was untrue; he had done research which showed her ancestry back on both sides to England etc.

I checked what I had written, realised that I really should have said "A contemporary newspaper reported that she has half Australian Aboriginal, but there is no evidence to support this", and emailed the other researcher to say that I would make this change, and offered to accept any further research he has done. The other researcher emailed me back with what (to me) sounded quite angry words, saying that if I didn't take this incorrect information down, he would take 'further action'. he stressed that he was not racially motivated.

==========
So what to do? I don't enjoy conflict and don't want this to turn into a fight. I also don't really have any skin in the game; I am not related to the subject of the article.

I've got a range of options, and could really do with some help.

Regards,

Tim
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:39 GMT (UK)
As the information you included is in the public domain there is no "further action"
that can be taken.
I wouldn't be bullied into changing it, it's part of an historical document.
It may also be that the other party's research is incorrect.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: eddiebooth on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:49 GMT (UK)
I would change the wording and name the newspaper. I wouldnt bother saying there is no evidence to support this.
As Jim1 says, this information is in the public domain, if the other person has an issue he should take it up with the newspaper (if still in existence) or if he still pursues you he needs to back up his side of the story - at least you have something that supports what you have said. He would at the least need a birth certificate naming both parents, although it could well be that the 'father' named may not be the biological father at all.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: Viktoria on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:50 GMT (UK)
Methinks he doth protest too much !
I don’t think he isn’t racially motivated !
In my view he ought really to be contacting the newspaper ,assuming it is still in existence ,that was your source.

If you added a note saying this was never proved and further research by other family members has that it is not true so you have amended your records accordingly .
I am not sure what else you can do.
What can he do?

Gosh, if I believed half of what my mother’s surviving siblings told me ——
 ::)
Don’t worry ,if he were not racially prejudiced he would be proud of the Aborigine connections.You could throw that at him, that far from not being racially motivated he patently is ,is that an offence ?
I think it is here .
He will probably then be more worried than you - I sincerely hope so.

You won’t be the only researcher who has this info in your tree ,what can he do? He won’t know  of all the others .

Tell him to take it up with the Newspaper.
Viktoria.
PS- Sorry folks your replies arrived whilst I was typing mine .We are in agreement anyway,
V.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: BumbleB on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:54 GMT (UK)
Just a thought - do you have a copy of the actual newspaper article?  If so, then attach that to your website, in which case there is no case to answer.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: Viktoria on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:00 GMT (UK)
Yes, then he HAS to contact the newspaper or shut up!
If not still in existence then shut up anyway!
I like it  ;D
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: Nanna52 on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:05 GMT (UK)
When I wrote a piece about a cousin of mine I used an interview he gave as reference for part of it.  I named the paper, it’s date and said that it was according to an interview he gave.

I imagine that a statement along the lines of according to a report in such and such paper printed on this date she was half aboriginal.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: groom on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:16 GMT (UK)
Surely you should have added your sources ( the newspaper) anyway, especially if you were writing about the court case? If you have already done that, then as the others have said, it isn't you he has to take action against, but the newspaper - you will have covered yourself as you have acknowledged the source.  I doubt if he'll get anywhere trying to sue about an article written over 150 years ago.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: james52 on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:31 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Viktoria on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:50 GMT (UK)
Methinks he doth protest too much !
I don’t think he isn’t racially motivated !

Giving him the benefit of the doubt it may not be racially motivated. He could have spent countless hours (and money) researching that branch of the family tree; the possibility that it was all based on one incorrect link may be too unpalatable - better to be in denial. I know I've had to bring my willpower to the fore on occasion when I was unsure about a half-lead but it would have been all too convenient to take it as truth.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: majm on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:34 GMT (UK)
Quote from: ThoseBefore on Wednesday 05 January 22 00:33 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

I hope someone can give me some guidance here, as this is making me quite agitated.

On my family history website I have a profile for someone born c.1870 in Australia. She was involved in an interesting court case. As part of the contemporary newspaper reporting, it was said of her that she was half Australian Aboriginal. On my website I said in a note that she was half Australian Aboriginal.

I was contacted by a member of her extended family to say that this was untrue; he had done research which showed her ancestry back on both sides to England etc.

I checked what I had written, realised that I really should have said "A contemporary newspaper reported that she has half Australian Aboriginal, but there is no evidence to support this", and emailed the other researcher to say that I would make this change, and offered to accept any further research he has done. The other researcher emailed me back with what (to me) sounded quite angry words, saying that if I didn't take this incorrect information down, he would take 'further action'. he stressed that he was not racially motivated.

==========
So what to do? I don't enjoy conflict and don't want this to turn into a fight. I also don't really have any skin in the game; I am not related to the subject of the article.

I've got a range of options, and could really do with some help.

Regards,

Tim

You have been given very sensible advice.  I am NSW born of NSW born parents, grandparents and back further generations.   I have been involved in family history groups since .... well ...long before the internet. 

Do not fret.   In Australia, a Deceased person has no rights, so anyone conducting research into a deceased person can interpret their findings according to their own standards.   Your audience can decide if  your research is factual or factoidal or twaddle.  If you have copied someone else's research you should acknowledge that, to avoid being considered a cheat. If you have found something in a newspaper, then cite the paper, the date and page if known.  But dont be afraid of a hector,  for your research is YOURS. Any of us can disagree with your published research, on any topic ... eg  1 +3 = 97.  Well of course it's wrong.  So what ... A bully could try to make mountains .... 97  :-[

... and ..... well ...   do not panic.  Hasten slowly.  Dont confront, dont over react.   Australians current usage of 'racist' and 'racism' is very broad .... so I wonder if the bully is simply 'trying it on'.  Just make sure that you cite the newspaper source.  Eg "Oops, several respected family historians have asked me to cite my source.  It is from ....... newspaper of ..... date on page ......  "

JM
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:36 GMT (UK)
I'd be inclined to add the source of the information to the website and ignore any further comments about it.

As far as I'm aware, for a defamation action to succeed, a living person would have to demonstrate that they have suffered some financial loss or damage to their own reputation. I can't see how that  would work in this case. 
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: iluleah on Wednesday 05 January 22 13:33 GMT (UK)
ThoseBefore as others have said the 'other researcher' has no 'further action' they can take... cite your source to show where you got your information from, which is public record if a newspaper report, however even if you do nothing at all, the person is long dead and dead people can't sue and the other researcher has no 'right' (legal or moral ) to bully or threaten you or anyone else about their dead ancestors origins......my advice is ignore and/or block further emails

Funny thing is some people researching their ancestry think they are the only ones who 'own' the information they have and will argue when other reseachers find something they have't seen or don't have that doesn't 'fit' their narrative.... I have experienced simular nasty reactions from a couple of other researchers , both I cut contact with as their reactions were far beyond reasonable or in any way nice, however it can shake you ( it did me at the time)

I have just been looking at FS website and checking some real records/images and if some people think that 'further action' can be taken they are mistaken... I looked at the FS transcribed record of someone I was interested in but it stated the wrong county. So I checked the image to find it was completely different County ( Suffolk not Norfolk) to what was transcribed, different parents, different country, so someone has been slopping transcribing a whole parish record book giving the wrong information in the transcription... which lead me to looking at other information, FS guess countries, guess counties eg 'Rutland Wales' when Rutland is the smallest county in England and nowhere near Wales as well as many others



Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: ThoseBefore on Wednesday 05 January 22 22:11 GMT (UK)
Thank you all so very much for your responses - they are sound advice and really help in a practical sense, but also to relieve my mind. I do source everything on my website comprehensively, so I am covered there.

This is the first time I have been faced with this sort of threat - and it was another member of this family who told me about this connection anyway, so I imagine that there are fights within the family as well.

Once again, thank you all!

Regards, Tim
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: BumbleB on Wednesday 05 January 22 22:38 GMT (UK)
Good luck!

Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: Viktoria on Wednesday 05 January 22 22:51 GMT (UK)
Glad you feel more relaxed about it all,and that it won’t spoil the immense pleasure you get from your family history research .
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: majm on Thursday 06 January 22 00:38 GMT (UK)
This link http://www.thosebefore.com/index.htm   

Tim,  I am quite sure that there's naught you need to change in your opening remarks on that site's current home page.    I particularly enjoyed reading the names of the localities at the "Places Index" ...  I was born and bred 'on the Lachlan'.  Some of those surnames I recognise from my school days...  ... 

Now, I share ... to bring smiles all round ...  I am a "Condo Socks" proud owner  - they are the very best clayton's socks around. Drop Bears cannot have them but if you change out of your school uniform after school hours,  you will have your Condo Socks on - or if you have been outdoors participating in sport or outdoor activities for gainful employment or for personal pleasure you will have earnt your Condo Socks too ...
BUT ONLY if you do so in Condobolin


The communities of regional central west NSW include people born in the district, people who have moved to the district from elsewhere in NSW or other jurisdictions within Australia, and even include people who have been born overseas. and who have chosen to migrate to regional Australia.  Some are aware of their ethnicities, and some are not.   Some people take offence at those who have Condo Socks and shout out about skin colours etc... while on the other-hand  some think those who take offence are far too sensitive or are simply 'trying it on'.

JM   
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: ThoseBefore on Thursday 06 January 22 02:49 GMT (UK)
Quote from: majm on Thursday 06 January 22 00:38 GMT (UK)
This link http://www.thosebefore.com/index.htm   

Tim,  I am quite sure that there's naught you need to change in your opening remarks on that site's current home page.    I particularly enjoyed reading the names of the localities at the "Places Index" ...  I was born and bred 'on the Lachlan'.  Some of those surnames I recognise from my school days...  ... 

Now, I share ... to bring smiles all round ...  I am a "Condo Socks" proud owner  - they are the very best clayton's socks around. Drop Bears cannot have them but if you change out of your school uniform after school hours,  you will have your Condo Socks on - or if you have been outdoors participating in sport or outdoor activities for gainful employment or for personal pleasure you will have earnt your Condo Socks too ...

JM

Thanks JM - that's an expression I haven't heard before, but I think I get what you are saying!
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: majm on Thursday 06 January 22 03:03 GMT (UK)
Yes,   during the school day the sun never gets a chance to tan your ankles to toes cause you are required to wear socks on your feet inside your school shoes.   So, when you get home from school and change into casual cool cotton clothes and bare your feet by pulling off your school socks, you automatically are in your Condo Socks..... 

JM 
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: eddiebooth on Thursday 06 January 22 10:59 GMT (UK)
Thats a wonderful family tree blog youve created Tim, must have taken you ages
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: ThoseBefore on Thursday 06 January 22 22:53 GMT (UK)
Thank you for saying that - it continues to be a labour of love. Which is perhaps one of the reasons that I became so upset when I felt attacked by this other person about what I do.
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: Guy Etchells on Friday 07 January 22 08:09 GMT (UK)
If it was my site I would simple change the wording to "A contemporary newspaper reported that she has half Australian Aboriginal". No need to add anything about evidence as you are accurately quoting from an earlier source.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Threatened over my Family History research
Post by: Michee on Friday 07 January 22 08:43 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Viktoria on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:50 GMT (UK)
Methinks he doth protest too much !
I don’t think he isn’t racially motivated !
In my view he ought really to be contacting the newspaper ,assuming it is still in existence ,that was your source.

If you added a note saying this was never proved and further research by other family members has that it is not true so you have amended your records accordingly .
I am not sure what else you can do.
What can he do?

Gosh, if I believed half of what my mother’s surviving siblings told me ——
 ::)
Don’t worry ,if he were not racially prejudiced he would be proud of the Aborigine connections.You could throw that at him, that far from not being racially motivated he patently is ,is that an offence ?
I think it is here .
He will probably then be more worried than you - I sincerely hope so.

You won’t be the only researcher who has this info in your tree ,what can he do? He won’t know  of all the others .

Tell him to take it up with the Newspaper.
Viktoria.
PS- Sorry folks your replies arrived whilst I was typing mine .We are in agreement anyway,
V.

yep, to all the above.