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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Aquitaine on Sunday 02 January 22 16:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
Researching the Sykes family with John and Mary Sykes, around the parishes of St Dunstan Stepney first known child John 24 Jul 1814 • St Dunstan Stepney, second known child of Isaac 5 Oct 1817 • St Alphage Greenwich Kent in which father is noted as a gun maker, this entry has some initials in the description which I cant read, then Joseph 28 Dec 1814 • St Dunstan Stepney London, I am trying to get a bit further with this family but not sure how to go about it with John Sykes the father as there are many with this name.
I am aware of some trees on Ancestry but again not sure if these are correct.
Thank you.
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second known child of Isaac 5 Oct 1817 • St Alphage Greenwich Kent in which father is noted as a gun maker, this entry has some initials in the description which I cant read,
Do you mean underneath gun maker?
If so it's the birth date for Isaac - born Sept 14
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John and Joseph were actually baptised on the same day - 24 July 1814
John born 28 Dec 1811
Joseph born 28 January [1814?]
It says John and Mary were of M.E.N.T - i.e. Mile End New Town
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Thank you Millilpede and Mabel for your responses, yes these are the right family.
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Hi everyone,
How can I get further finding about John Sykes especially in the London area.
Any tips thanks.
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There is a marriage at Christ Church Spitalfields, Tower Hamlets on 29 Jan 1809
Between John SYKES (bachelor) and Mary SYKES (spinster)
Both of this parish
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Hello Neale
There are so many Sykes families I dont know which one to go with.. Is this church Spitalfields near to Mile End Old Town ? There is a family tree that has John Sykes married to Mary Tibbetts but I am reluctant to follow that one.
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There is another daughter -
Mary Alice Sykes
Baptised Whitechapel 20 May 1810 (born 17 Dec 1809)
Parents John and Mary Sykes; Red Lion St.
Mary Alice Sykes married on 13 Dec 1841 Christ Church Spitalfields to William Willis
Marriage record gives her father as John Sykes; gun maker.
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There are so many Sykes families I dont know which one to go with.. Is this church Spitalfields near to Mile End Old Town ?
Yes this marriage is right in the Stepney – Mile end - Whitechapel area, which is why I brought it to your attention.
Marriage at Christ Church Spitalfields, Tower Hamlets on 29 Jan 1809
Between John SYKES (bachelor) and Mary SYKES (spinster)
Both of this parish.
Both sign their names.
Witnesses – George Ashton (church cleric) & Caroline Sykes
There is a family tree that has John Sykes married to Mary Tibbetts but I am reluctant to follow that one.
The marriage of John Sykes to Mary Tibbets was in 1787 in Bermondsey.
It doesn't look like a very good option to me.
Where are the children born in the first 20 years of their marriage?
I think it is best to ignore other trees all copying mistakes from each other, and do your own research.
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As a gun maker, it is not surprising to see John Sykes living in Greenwich Kent when Isaac was born in 1817. He may have been working at the near-by Royal Arsenal in Woolwich.
But since the children Mary Alice and Isaac both marry in the Tower Hamlets area in 1840 and 1841, it makes one think the family might have moved back to that area at some point.
Have you found Isaac Sykes in the 1841 census?
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Thank you Neale for the extra details. I have to confess I am a bit lost in London!
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Hello Neale
I think you have found them! The marriage of Mary Alice Sykes with fathers occupation gun maker is definitely our John Sykes! What a brilliant find.
I have been trying to find a good site with old London Streets online which might help me as well.
I dont have Isaac Sykes 1841 ...he was a tailor and died in Essex.
Isnt it strange that John Sykes married a Mary Sykes..
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It would be good to find Mary Alice Sykes in the 1841 census, which is before she married.
Also you might try to follow up on the witnesses at the marriages to see if that gives you more family leads.
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Cheers Neale!
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Hi
Can I add a lead for Mary Sykes the wife.
Mary Sykes bapt 9.11.1788 Whitechapel d of Isaac and Sarah Sykes Elephany and Castle Court.
This address was just round the corner from Red Lion St where Mary Alice was born.
Red Lion St was off Whitechapel Hight Street as you head out of London.Elephant Court was on the High St slightly further along before you got to Church Lane .
Isaac is on the London Tax Records there 1788-1808.
It looks like he married 3 times .
Sarah Richardson 4.12.1787 Shoreditch
Jane Osbourne 18.7.1790 Shoreditch with whom he had a son James 10.7.1791 Whitechapel
Amelia Trundell banns 1797 Shoreditch (perhaps the sister of Sarah who married Francis Sykes of rosemary Lane 21.12.1785 at Wapping.(Francis 1766-4.7.1827 Wapping had a daughter Caroline bapt 26.12.1798 Whitechapel who may just be the witness to John and Mary's wedding.
An Isaac Sykes was found not guilty of passing counterfeit money 14.10.1796 .If this was him he was a member of the Poulter company it seems.
Isaac was alive 1808 so his burial may be at the Non Conformist chapel 5.10.1820 at Commercial Road. I can't find a baptism for Isaac or Francis Sykes.They would be born 1760s.
If we look for a Gunmaker ,then we find John Sykes of Rosemary Lane in the 1790s.
In 18.9.1799 he takes on an apprentice James Holland from the workhouse.
6.11.1797 his son John is apprenticed to William Lacy as a cutler for seven years which leads to him as Freeman of the City of London 1804.
Joseph Sykes born 1815 of Princes St s of John Sykes cutler is also admitted 6.7.1837.
There seems to be only one Joseph Sykes born 1814/1815 son of John -- yours.
Could you John Sykes gunmaker have originally been a cutler before taking over his father's business as gun maker? A push but it seems to fit.
John the elder gun maker is actually at Salt Petre Bank next to Rosemary Lane on the Land Tax 1787-1794.
He married Mary King at Whitechapel 21.5.1782.
Son John Sykes born Church Lane 15.6.1783 ,Ann and Francis twins 10th July 1785 Petre bank.
Looking at it I think John Sykes gun maker and his wife Mary married 1809 were probably first cousins.Their addresses are really close.
Whitechapel road (Elephant and Castle Court)
Red lion st l l Church Lane
Lemon St L l--------------Commercial Road
White Lion St l
Rosemary Lane (Salt Petre Bank)Cable St
l Princes St
All in a big wonky square.
Just an idea.Don't want to put my foot in it.
Ciderdrinker
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Hello Ciderdrinker and Neale
I am amazed at the latest results finding the Sykes family, certainly considered research I dont know what to say but many thanks - amazing - it must have taken you a while. It is a Yorkshire surname.
I havent found Mary A Sykes (Mary Alice) on 1841 as yet. I did find the Caroline bpts which I thought could be (witness).
Which are the best maps for London the Charles Booth poverty ones to find streets ?
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Good Morning.
Yes I love the Charles Booth Maps.They are so informative.
There are also Old Ordnance Survey maps at National Library of Scotland but you do need some idea of where the street was.
https://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/Old_to_New_Abolished_London_Street_Names.htm#R
Gives the new name of streets for London but it's not as comprehensive as I'd like.
Locating London https://www.locatinglondon.org/
is supposedly good but basically it's the 1746 map and not much else as far as I can see.Maybe it's me.
Ciderdrinker