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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: dhelensmith on Saturday 01 January 22 20:40 GMT (UK)
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Hello I hope you can help me.
I have been contacted by the great grand daughter of Charlotte who cannot work out who Charlotte's parents are. Charlotte married first William Edward Ware in 1875 saying her father was Edward and then again she married Edward Burr in Adelaide in 1928, giving her father as John. DNA seems to connect her to either of 2 brothers John Long Roach or James Webb Roach, both of Bristol and both 1st cousins several times removed of mine. James Webb 's son James (1807 - 1883) certainly came to Australia, in 1849 aboard the barque "Mary Ann", sailing from Bristol to Port Adelaide via Plymouth. He and his wife Mary Ann Exell married in Bristol in 1824 had several children, one of whom was called Charlotte (1843 - 1936). There was an earlier child Edwin Richard (1827-1908) who features in the Police Gazette in 1889 in Ballarat and was convicted and imprisoned for 6 months. I have not been able to find a marriage for him. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any help at all
Helen
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Are you able to give more information.
Where was the first marriage? What are the complete and full details written on that marriage record?
Where was Charlotte born?
Details of children from the first marriage?
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These are the two marriages?
You are researching the origins of Charlotte Annie ROACH?
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
WARE William Edw marr. Anne @ Adelaide 102/938 1875
BURR Edward marr. Charlotte Annie @ Adelaide 314/10 1928
Marriage 1875....what church?....... and what names for witnesses please?
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The Advertiser 9 Jul 1936 p16
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/74330377?
BURR - On the 8th July (suddenly) at 28 Gordon street. Semaphore Park, Edward BURR,
dearly beloved husband of Charlotte Annie BURR, and loving father of Frederick, Sydney,
Violet, Olive, Elsie. Ruby, and Thelma. In his 76th year. Resting.
The Advertiser 26 Jul 1944 p10
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/43213631?
BURR.—The friends of the late Mrs Charlotte Annie Burr (formerly Mrs WARE) are respectfully informed that her funeral will leave the Funeral Parlors. 173 Port road. Alberton on Wednesday, at 3 p.m..for the Cheltenham Cemetery.
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Thanks for your help so far.
As I said I'm looking at this for a contact who is descended from Charlotte Annie. My information is from other ancestry trees, none of which seem to know who her father was, most agree his name was "John".
First marriage 15 March 1875 at St Patrick's Adelaide.
2nd marriage 3 January 1928 in Adelaide. Nothing else given on any of the trees I've seen. Buried in Cheltenham Cemetery 26 July 1944. Her year of birth is from her gravestone. Place of birth is given as Bendigo, but I've seen no support for this.
They seem to have had 12 children:Mary Frances 1875-1900; Lucy Matilda 1876-1915; Rose Florence 1879-1939; William Edward 1881-1881; Alfred Ernest Alexander 1882-1883; Leonard Clarence 1884-1884; Oliver Erskine 1890-1969; Ethel Phillipa 1892-1916; Ivy Gladys 1895-1983;Harold Frank Avondale 1897-1970.
Thanks again
Helen
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"Nothing else given on any of the trees I've seen."
You need to see the first marriage certificate. BDM certificates, South Australia, do not have as much information recorded as you find in some other states.
You need to see names of witnesses, any addresses or locations or occupations recorded on the marriage certificate.
Otherwise all you will have is what you see on Ancestry trees....work submitted, and copied, by other researchers.
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Hi all I am the descendant of Charlotte Annie Roach. I have looked at all records from her-thoroughly- She was born in Bendigo c1856-1868-(c1857).....from her death cert 1944 aged 88-in woodville adelaide- buried cheltenham- its just her parenbts as she doesnt appear in the regs..... (goldrush) - and adelaide hospital admissions.....Using dna I have narrowed down the family- but cant find the father- could it be an illigit daughter of one of the Roach in this family?
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James Webb 's son James (1807 - 1883) certainly came to Australia, in 1849 aboard the barque "Mary Ann", sailing from Bristol to Port Adelaide via Plymouth. He and his wife Mary Ann Exell married in Bristol in 1824 had several children, one of whom was called Charlotte (1843 - 1936). There was an earlier child Edwin Richard (1827-1908)
Is it correct that James and Mary Ann arrived with children Charlotte (6) and James Henry (9) as well as Edwin (Edward) and George who were in their early 20's?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195937449
Who were the witnesses when Charlotte married to William WARE?
Debra :D
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Here's a lead. No guarantees. :)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page8444365
WALSH.— On the 2nd November, at the residence of her granddaughter, Hindmarsh, Catherine Walsh, aged 85 years. Arrived in ship Mary Ann. 1849.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article207756224
THE FRIENDS of Mrs CATHERINE WALSH, late of California-street, Adelaide, are respectfully Informed that her Remains will be removed from her granddaughter's (Mrs. WilliamWare, jun ) residence, Osmond-street, Hindmarsh, TOMORROW, at 3.30 pm, for interment in the West-terrace Catholic Cemetery.
Associated conjecture (see opening sentence) follows.
Since the granddaughter's husband was William Ware junior, his father was also William Ware. This is consistent with her husband being William Edward Ware, and hence the grand-daughter being Charlotte Annie.
https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/1849MaryAnn.htm
At her death Catherine Walsh was the widow of Peter Walsh. They are presumably "WELSH, Peter and wife and 4 children". Both a James Roach AND an Edward Roach are also listed as passengers.
It was pretty common for immigrant ship passengers and/or their close relatives to marry after arrival.
If Charlotte Annie Roach was the grand-daughter of Peter and Catherine Walsh then her mother must have been a Walsh.
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Note 15 Jan (South Australia) - I corrected "James Webb Roach" to "James Roach"
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FYI. It might not be necessary to purchase the marriage certificate in order to determine the witnesses to the marriage. The State Library of South Australia holds the marriage registers of many churches on microfiche. That usually shows the names of witnesses and often ancillary info such as the occupations of the bridge and groom.
You can ask the SLSA to look this up for you. I think you have to be a member either of the SLSA itself (which requires you to be resident in SA) or of one one the other affiliated State Libraries.
https://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/ask-us
I see they were married in St Patricks Church, Adelaide.
Unfortunately the early SA BDM records for Catholics are woefully sparse.
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Good detective work, seeking0 :D
Working on the theory that the single WALSHs on the Mary Ann were older children of Peter and Catherine, it looks to me like they were from Newbridge, Kildare, Ireland.
Peter WALSH and Catherine DOYLE were married in 1827.
Baptisms found so far....
1827 Matthew
1829 Rose
1830 Mary
1837 Joseph
1839 Hugh
1840 Margaret
1842 Catherine
1845 Teresa
1846 Patrick
There is a large gap between 1830 and 1837 where I think Anna and Peter fit in, but I cannot see baptisms at the moment.
The older children who arrived in 1849 were Matthew, Peter, Rose(anna), Mary and Anna, and I think the four younger with the parents were Joseph, Hugh, Catherine (Kate) and Teresa.
Marriage
Anna WALSH
Marriage Date 18 May 1853
Marriage Place Adelaide, South Australia
Spouse Patrick DEEHAN
Page number 62
Volume Number 17
Death
Anna Maria DEEHAN
1920
Ehawk, Victoria
5534 / 1920
Aged 84 (born c 1836)
Mother: DOYLE
Father: Peter WALSH
DEEHAN - On the 29th June, at her residence, High street, Eaglehawk, Anna Maria, relict of the late P. J. Deehan, loved mother of Malachi, Fredrick, Clement, Arthur, Mrs. A. Connell (Long Gully), Laura, and Clara. A colonist of 73 years. R.I.P.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4598656
Marriage
Hugh WALSH
Marriage Date 5 Sep 1865
Marriage Place Adelaide, South Australia
Father Peter WALSH
Spouse Jane MORAN
Spouse Father John MORAN
Page number 502
Volume Number 63
Mr Hugh Walsh, an old resident of the Kapunda district, died on Thursday of last week. He was 75 years of age and had been in South Australia about 60 years. He arrived with his parents in the ship
Mary Ann in 1849, and after a short visit to the Victorian gold fields when they were discovered he
took up land at Bagot's Gap where he devoted himself to farming. He followed agriculture until 10 years ago, when he sold out and settled in Kapunda. His health failed a few months ago, and his death was not unexpected. He has left a widow, six sons, and two daughters.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/108337034
Marriage
Teresa Mary WALSH
Marriage Date: 29 Jul 1865
Marriage Place: Kapunda, South Australia
Father: Peter WALSH
Spouse: James Peter BOURKE
Spouse Father: Patrick BOURKE
Page number: 332
Volume Number: 63
Teresa remarried in Broken Hill, NSW to John HERREEN in 1889.
Death
HERREEN, TERESA M
16461/1926
Father: HUGH
76 YRS BROKEN HILLS
BROKEN HILL
HERREEN - On August 8, at 160 Williams-street, Teresa Mary Herreen, relict of the late John Herreen. Aged 79 years. R.I.P.
Debra :)
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In support of this theory of Dundee / Debra
Working on the theory that the single WALSHs on the Mary Ann were older children of Peter and Catherine,
One of those single Walshes was Matthew Walsh. A Matthew Walsh married Hannah Tomlin in Adelaide in 1855. Unfortunately the name of his father is not recorded in the marriage registration. But Matthew and Hannah had a daughter named Mary Ann and both Hannah and Mary Ann are buried in the same plot as Peter Walsh at West Terrace Cemetery.
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Only some further support of the following theory.
Working on the theory that the single WALSHs on the Mary Ann were older children of Peter and Catherine, it looks to me like they were from Newbridge, Kildare, Ireland.
Debra :)
Another of the single Walsh/Welsh passengers on the Mary Ann was Peter.
Groom Surname: WALSH
Groom Given Names: Peter
Bride Surname: TRANTER
Bride Given Names: Teresa Eliza
Marriage Date: 21-Oct-1861
Marriage Place: St John nr Kapunda
Groom Age: 25
Groom Marital Status: N
Groom Father: Peter WALSH
Bride Age: 19
Bride Marital Status: S
Bride Father: Francis TRANTER
District: Kapunda
Book/Page: 48/194
And from Trove http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88425981
WALSH.— On the 3rd December, at Lower Wakefield, Peter, the dearly-beloved husband of Teresa E. Walsh, after a long and painful illness, in his 71st year, leaving a wife, 6 sons, 5 daughters to mourn their sad loss. A colonist for 58 years. R.I.P. W. A. papers please copy.
The "colonist for 58 years" being consistent with arrival in 1849.
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Marriage
Rosina WALSH
Marriage Date: 23 Jun 1851
Marriage Place: Adelaide, South Australia
Spouse: Thomas BAKER
Page number: 238
Volume Number: 8
I cannot see these two anywhere after the marriage.
Marriage
Kate WALSH
Marriage Date: 26 May 1861
Marriage Place: Kapunda, South Australia
Father: Peter WALSH
Spouse: William ROGERS
Spouse Father: John ROGERS
Page number: 379
Volume Number: 46
Death
Catherine RODGERS
Death Age: 19
Residence Place: St Johns
Death Date: 28 Mar 1862
Death Place: St Johns, South Australia
Registration Place: Kapunda, Australia
Relative: William RODGERS
Page number: 68
Volume Number: 14
Debra :)
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Mary born 1830 might be of the most interest. Possible marriages.....
Marriage
Mary Ann WALSH
Marriage Date: 28 Jan 1851
Marriage Place: Kooringa, South Australia
Registration Place: The Murray, South Australia, Australia
Spouse: George ROACH
Page number: 322
Volume Number: 14
Marriage
Name: Mary WALSH
Marriage Date: 1858
Marriage Place: Victoria
Registration Date: 1858
Spouse: James ROACH
Registration Number: 3052
Debra :)
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Hi all I am the descendant of Charlotte Annie Roach. I have looked at all records from her-thoroughly-
So who witnessed the 1875 marriage and what was Charlotte's place of residence?
Debra :)