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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Buckinghamshire => England => Buckinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: TravelDog on Saturday 01 January 22 19:38 GMT (UK)
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Happy New Year … I hope you are all safe & well in such uncertain times.
Would there be Buckinghamshire or Northamptonshire Bastardy Bonds or other record for a child born in 1924?
I know the mothers birth name & child’s birth name & adopted name - but not the fathers name.
Any ideas welcome.
Ancestry DNA is showing connections to Newton Blossomville, and surrounding villages.
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Bastardy Bonds had long stopped by then. If the child was placed with the adoptive parents as a baby there would be no maintenance order
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Bastardy Bonds had long stopped by then. If the child was placed with the adoptive parents as a baby there would be no maintenance order
Thank you - I thought this would be the case, but I wanted to make sure.
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An update …
I have found through Ancestry DNA that my 98 year old fathers Great Grandfather was almost certainly
Sidney Young
Born - 1836 in Grovely Wood, Wiltshire England
Died - 1893 Danesfield, Medmenham,, Buckinghamshire, England
In the 1861 Census, Sidney Young, age 25, is recorded as a Gamekeeper lodging with Mr & Mrs Joel & Herodias Woods and family of Newton Blosomville, Buckinghamshire.
From Ancestry DNA I suspect Sidney Young must have fathered a child around 1862 in or around Newton Blossomville possibly with Herodias Woods -
And intriguingly after 1861 Joel & Herodias Woods are living at different locations on the Census data.
Questions
- would there be Bastardly Bonds from circa 1862 ?
I’ve searched British Newspaper Archives - and found a few mentions but nothing important
- Is there anywhere else I could look for more info on Sidney Young - I have the Ancestry info
I can’t find Sidney Youngs probate or Will online.
And I don’t know where he is buried either.
Any suggestions welcome.
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Edit: changed spelling of name to correct my dyslexia - Sidney Young
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Herodias is shown as Rhoda in 1861 - Herodias Jolley married Joel Woods 1846
Sidney (not Sydney) is shown as b South Newton Wiltshire
Who is “the child” you believe he fathered? Is it the William John aged 9 with Herodias & other siblings?
Do you know for certain that your William was b Bucks 1862?
Have you purchased his birth cert to establish if Joel is shown as his father & also to establish his exact birthdate
Herodias died in 1880 as Rhoda Woods
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In 1871 Sidney Young b 1835 Grosley Wiltshire occ gamekeeper is living in Great Marlow with wife Jane & 3 children. Still in Bucks in 1881 & 1891 & consistently spelt Sidney not Sydney
Sidney Married Jane Case June qtr 1862 in Wiltshire. William John Woods was b March qtr 1862 Bucks
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Thank you -
Yes I think
William John Woods born 1862 Bucks is the son of Sidney and Herodias (Rhoda).
But … William John Woods birth certificate shows Joel Woods as the father.
I am swayed further in my idea because my fathers DNA connects somehow to Finch & Ruffhead & Ross families
William John Woods marries Elizabeth Rebecca Finch born Sep 1865 in Newton Blossomville, Buckinghamshire
She is descended from Finch, Ruffhead & a generation higher Ross.
It’s either of their two sons who could be my fathers birth father.
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If Joel is shown as the father then there will not be any bastardy order.
It’s very difficult to help without names etc. One of the 2 sons you mentioned never married. Melbourne Victor John Woods b 1887 Northamptonshire died 3.6.1967 Northants. He left a will - have you already downloaded a copy?
Cyril Woods b 1893 married Edith Thompson 1931 Northants & died 1946 Northants. No children
As your father is still alive - his details cannot be given here but we really need details of his paternal grandfather - birthyear/birthplace etc
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Thank you again.
I see what you mean about the Bastardly Order - there won’t be one in this case - if my hypothesis about Sidney Young & Herodias Woods is correct.
The children of William Woods are Cyril Woods, Melbourne Woods & Florence Woods - I have their Wills but nothing of interest is mentioned.
I have found the boys were Conscientious Objectors - & worked in the leather trade but not much more.
Yes I agree - Melbourne Victor Woods did not marry.
Cyril Woods married & had no children.
Florence did marry & had children - DNA of a descendant might be my only hope of ruling my theory in or out.
Unfortunately, we don’t know who my Dads father was or his grandfather - my hypothesis is William Woods son of Sidney Young & Herodias Woods.
We know who my Dads birth mother is but not his birth father - it’s marked as Unknown - born in Northampton Workhouse.
My Dads birth mother had 5 children - with multiple fathers from what I have discovered.
Using Ancestry DNA with my fathers DNA - I am fairly certain that Sidney Young must be my fathers Great Grandfather.
Sidney Young must have had a child with someone other than his wife (who is also from Wiltshire) who my Dad is descended from.
We have lots of DNA links to descendants of Sidney Young & also people from Newton Blossomville - Finch, Ruffhead, Ross etc
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As you have his birth mothers name - have you traced her origins?
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Yes, I have located my Dads living half brothers & sisters, and traced their birth mothers family back 4 generations with DNA also confirming certificates. They are farmers from Higham Ferrers, Rushden.
My Dads birth mother was married to a man who had gone to Canada - whilst he was away my Dad was conceived - there is a record of the divorce on the National Archive - unfortunately, the archive doesn’t disclose who my Dads birth father was.
My Dads informal adoption records also show nothing.
I found my Dads half brother who had traced their mother in the 1970s - but although he asked about who his father was - his mother would not divulge anything.
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From Ancestry DNA I suspect Sidney Young must have fathered a child around 1862 in or around Newton Blossomville possibly with Herodias Woods
So although Sidney Young may have fathered an illegitimate child before he married - is there any actual DNA evidence to link that child to the Woods family or is it supposition based on the fact he was lodging with them in 1861?
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At the moment completely supposition based on the fact he was lodging with them in 1861?
But I was intrigued to see that Joel Woods & Herodias Woods are living at separate addresses in the 1871 census.
I have no DNA link yet to the Woods family - I will have to ask one of the descendants of Florence Woods to do an Ancestry DNA test. And see if they have a connection to Sidney Young & Wiltshire. I have located the descendants but not made contact yet.
Also intriguingly, as I wrote earlier my Dad has a strong DNA connection to the Finch family & The Ruffhead family - and William John Woods marries Elizabeth Rebecca Finch - she is descended from Finch (father), Ruffhead (mother) & Ross (grandmother).
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I wouldn't read too much into the fact that Joel & Herodias are at separate addresses in 1871. He was living & working on his employers premises. If his home address & work address were perhaps too far apart for daily travel - it wouldn't be unusual for him to "live in"
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I wonder if Herodias would have been noted in the 1871 census as head of house, if Joel was just working away?
To put my supposition to the test I think my only option is to contact the Woods descendants and see if a Sidney Young connection appears in their DNA results.
Or I suppose they might have family knowledge.