RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: paul_mc on Monday 20 December 21 01:20 GMT (UK)
-
Happy Christmas to you all!!
I hope everyone is coping with the current situation.
I was hoping someone might have a little time on their hands to help me out.
I finally 'finished' my family tree and published my 'for fun' website with all my findings however I have a few brick walls I can not get round. I was hoping someone with better detective skills than I could check this out.
1. Alexander Waterston/Waterson. Born circa 1810 in Hamilton, Lanarkshire or Blantyre. His parents William Waterston and Helen McLaughlan (various spellings). Can find nothing about Alexander until he's 27 and marrying Catherine Haddow in Hamilton on the 15th of October 1837 - She looks like she's about 5 years older than him. The have a daughter Jean/Jane born in Union Street, Hamilton in 1839. In 1841 the three of them are living on Union Street. Names spelt incorrectly but I accept that was how it was. Alex is a cotton Loom Weaver to trade.
1843 - Birth of son William in Blantyre
1844 - Birth of daughter Helen/Ellen - I've researched her and asked for help before on here regarding her. She married Thomas Law but had a daughter prior to the marriage called Grace. Sometimes Grace Waterson and sometimes Grace Law - She vanished into thin air - Could find nothing about her ever. She was 8 years old in the 1871 census living at EASTWOOD, Renfewshire, so did she married someone before the 1881 one?
1847 - Birth of son John in Hamilton. His life was grim and he was involved in a murder case in Hamilton - Which turned out to be more gross indifference to a woman's plight rather than murder but it still made the newspapers. he relocated to Edinburgh and started a new life. I have all his info.
In 1851 Catherine is at 15 Lamb Street, Hamilton
Living with daughters Jane, Helen and son's William and John. Presumably separated from her husband. On her death certificate she is listed as a widow however her husband was far from dead. Which further backs up the line of thought that she was living as a widow and in the full knowledge that her husband was else where - Where he was is another brick wall.
In 1861 Catherine is now at 86 Townhead Street, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Living with her father who is a widower and her 2 daughters Jean and Mary - No idea why there's a Mary as it was always a Helen - Its the same person so maybe Mary was a middle name?
Jean married Peter Strachan - I've got her history from then on in bolted down.
Helen/Ellen/Mary married Thomas Law - she's bolted down apart from the daughter Grace mystery.
Mother Catherine dies 29th of December 1869 in the Hamilton Sick House.
So what happened to Alexander Waterston after the birth of last child John in 1847 ? There's a massive gap until I found his death on Aug 30 1890 in Kirklands Asylum, Bothwell. Usual Residence Raploch Street, Larkhall a Pauper Lunatic - Formally a hawker of small wares. He's not on any property valuations - he's not on any census that I can fine - Can anyone help ?
His son William - appears in 1861 and is Single.
Occupation Carpenter Crew on board the vessel Impregnable, The census place is Anglesey, an island off the north-west coast of Wales. No idea how he got there.
In 1868 he's listed on UK List of Military Deserters. Desertion Place: Chatham Publication Date: 14 April 1868 Regimental Number: 8822 Military Corps: Royal Engineers
Mar 31 1868 Chatham, Kent
In 1871 1871
Boarder in the Bryden household at 26 Annfield St, High Church, Glasgow.
Occupation Joiner aged 28
On the 21 September 1889 he leaves Scotland - Glasgow, Scotland to New York, USA on board the Bolivia. - The trail goes cold after that - Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance friends
Paul
-
What is your source for this information -
" Alexander WATERSTON/WATERSON. Born circa 1810 in Hamilton, Lanarkshire or Blantyre. His parents William WATERSTON and Helen McLAUGHLAN "
What is on this death certificate that confirms him to be your Alexander WATERSTON/WATERSON
"I found his death on Aug 30 1890 in Kirklands Asylum, Bothwell. Usual Residence Raploch Street, Larkhall a Pauper Lunatic - Formally a hawker of small wares."
-
On these two marriage certificates, what information is given about father?....(dec)?...what occupation?
1862 647/ 70 @ Hamilton
WATERSTON Jane marr. STRACHAN Peter
1870 562/ 103 @ Eastwood
WATERSON Ellen marr. LAW Thomas
-
"His son William - appears in 1861 and is Single.
Occupation Carpenter Crew on board the vessel Impregnable, The census place is Anglesey, an island off the north-west coast of Wales. No idea how he got there."
Follow back to start of listings for "Impregnable", which name would suggest a Royal Navy vessel.
On night of census, 1861-
Remuneration Book for Royal Navy "Impregnable" 72 guns moored in ***** Devonport.
This William WATERSON, carpenter crew, age 24y, born Blaisters Lanarkshire, joined the Royal Navy.
-
1844 - Birth of daughter Helen/Ellen - I've researched her and asked for help before on here
Please post a link to any previous threads about this family, so that helpful people can see what has already been found and save wasting time duplicating what you already know.
-
Lots of previous posts on the family-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780237.msg6344769#msg6344769
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=788595.msg6441301#msg6441301
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793838.msg6502937#msg6502937
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=831570.msg6959876#msg6959876
In 1851 Catherine is at 15 Lamb Street, Hamilton
Living with daughters Jane, Helen and son's William and John. Presumably separated from her husband. On her death certificate she is listed as a widow however her husband was far from dead. Which further backs up the line of thought that she was living as a widow and in the full knowledge that her husband was else where - Where he was is another brick wall.
Is the Alexander who died in 1890 her husband?
-
There are three deaths of Waters(t)on(e)s, mother's maiden name Haddow
Ellen, 30, died Hamilton 1876
John, 69, died Edinburgh 1915
Margaret, 29, died Cambusnethan 1878.
You may have these already, but if not you need to take a look at them. I wonder if Margaret is an error for Mary?
-
There are three deaths of Waters(t)on(e)s, mother's maiden name Haddow
Ellen, 30, died Hamilton 1876
John, 69, died Edinburgh 1915
Margaret, 29, died Cambusnethan 1878.
Could Margaret have been married to Alexander Munro? The Cambusnethan cemetery records are very sketchy for 1878, only about 20 entries for the entire year but, there is an entry for a child, Margaret Munro who died aged 20 months, September 1880. Parents Alexander Munro & Margaret Waterson.
-
Paul, have you checked the archives to see whether there could be any records for Alexader at Kirkland Asylum? https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/f1ed5f4b-7838-3f11-9702-d87fc81398c1
Your website www.secretlives.co.uk/ ....looks great! What a lot of detail you have collected on your lines ;)
Monica
-
Thank you all so much for what you have done so far.
Wivenhoe - Thanks for your help just to answer the questions. I have Alexanders death certificate which lists his parents - I understand he was an old man and died in an asylum so maybe the names could be wrong. On the certificate his wife is listed as Catherine Haddow. So its definitely him.
On these two marriage certificates, what information is given about father?....(dec)?...what occupation?
1862 647/ 70 @ Hamilton
WATERSTON Jane marr. STRACHAN Peter - Father Alexander Waterston, Weaver and mother Catherine Waterston nee Haddow
1870 562/ 103 @ Eastwood
WATERSON Ellen marr. LAW Thomas - Father John Waterston, Coal Pithead Worker and mother Catherine Waterston nee Haddow. I think the 'John' is a mistake
So son William joined the Royal Navy - I just have to find a way of tracking him down.
Forfarian - I didn't have the death of Margaret so I will research that now. There seemed to a flip between Mary and Margaret for some reason. Update I've viewed the certificate and its a weird one as the mothers maiden name is not Haddow. So I dont think this lady is who I'm looking for.
Ive applied for the asylum records but theres been a delay due to covid.
-
There are three deaths of Waters(t)on(e)s, mother's maiden name Haddow
Ellen, 30, died Hamilton 1876
John, 69, died Edinburgh 1915
Margaret, 29, died Cambusnethan 1878.
I could only find this entry with a matching surname Arthur...
WOTHERSPOON MARGARET 29
HADDOW (mmn)
1878 - 628/ 264 Cambusnethan
Forfarian - I've viewed the certificate and its a weird one as the mothers maiden name is not Haddow.
Is the above cert. the one you viewed which has Haddow as MMN on the index?
Depending on who registered the death, there may be an error with the surname Wotherspoon?
I've had a similar error where the surname was recorded as Allison but should have been Alcorn.
Who was the informant of the death & what other info. was given re addresses, which may help deciding whether there may have been any errors?
Annie
Add...I think you can eliminate the above entry as this looks to be the matching marriage entry...
WOTHERSPOON JOHN / ARTHUR MARGARET 1871 - 628/ 69 Cambusnethan
-
Thanks all and thanks Annie
Yeah she's not my Margaret but it was worth a try
I'm still looking for William - Who I think went overseas but is that whats throwing me ?
and obviously Mary/Margaret
Paul
-
Hi Paul,
Is it possible to do a recap of who is still missing with a timeline of events/dates/places for each please as trawling through everything takes so much time up?
Annie
-
1843 - Birth of son William in Blantyre
His son William - appears in 1861 and is Single.
Occupation Carpenter Crew on board the vessel Impregnable, The census place is Anglesey, an island off the north-west coast of Wales. No idea how he got there.
In 1868 he's listed on UK List of Military Deserters. Desertion Place: Chatham Publication Date: 14 April 1868 Regimental Number: 8822 Military Corps: Royal Engineers
Mar 31 1868 Chatham, Kent
In 1871 1871
Boarder in the Bryden household at 26 Annfield St, High Church, Glasgow.
Occupation Joiner aged 28
On the 21 September 1889 he leaves Scotland - Glasgow, Scotland to New York, USA on board the Bolivia. - The trail goes cold after that - Can anyone help?
What are all the details on the 1889 manifest to New York, do you have a link?
Annie
-
I just really want to track down the last of these distant family members
Grace Waterston. Born in Hamilton 3rd of September 1862. She's illegitimate and only mother Helen/Ellen Waterston listed on the certificate. The certificate is signed by Helens mother, Grace's grandmother Catherine Waterston. Helen eventually marries Thomas LAw and in the 1871 census Helen, Thomas and Grace are living together at 37 New Street, Eastwood, Renfrewshire. What's interesting is that Grace is now named Grace Law (taking her step-fathers surname). Graces mother dies when she's 13 years old in 1876 and Thomas Law dies in 1881 but not before remarrying Lizzie Williamson, a widow. Grace simply disappears. She snot on the 1881 census - No deaths or marriages listed - Its so annoying as I really want to know what happened to her.
William Waterston (Helen's brother) Birth 1843 Blantyre, Lanarkshire
Residence 1851 - 15 Lamb Street, Hamilton Living with mother Catherine, sisters Jane and Helen and brother John
1861 Age ~18 Residence Apr 7 1861
Single. Occupation Carpenter Crew on board the vessel Impregnable, The census place is Anglesey, an island off the north-west coast of Wales
Military Service UK List of Military Deserters. Desertion Place: Chatham Publication Date: 14 April 1868 Regimental Number: 8822 Military Corps: Royal Engineers Mar 31 1868 Chatham, Kent
1871
Boarder in the Bryden household at 26 Annfield St, High Church, Glasgow.
Occupation Joiner
Immigration Sep 21 1889 Glasgow, Scotland to New York, USA on board the Bolivia
-
I just really want to track down the last of these distant family members
William Waterston (Helen's brother) Birth 1843 Blantyre, Lanarkshire
Residence 1851 - 15 Lamb Street, Hamilton Living with mother Catherine, sisters Jane and Helen and brother John
1861 Age ~18 Residence Apr 7 1861
Single. Occupation Carpenter Crew on board the vessel Impregnable, The census place is Anglesey, an island off the north-west coast of Wales
Military Service UK List of Military Deserters. Desertion Place: Chatham Publication Date: 14 April 1868 Regimental Number: 8822 Military Corps: Royal Engineers Mar 31 1868 Chatham, Kent
1871
Boarder in the Bryden household at 26 Annfield St, High Church, Glasgow.
Occupation Joiner
Immigration Sep 21 1889 Glasgow, Scotland to New York, USA on board the Bolivia
Not sure if you seen my question above...
"What are all the details on the 1889 manifest to New York, do you have a link?"
There's a gap between his sighting in 1871 & his 'Immigration' in 1889.
Annie
Add...It would be an idea to update your info. to correspond with correct info. on other threads but also to let people know if you've confirmed/eliminated the info. given...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780237.0
"There is also an immigration record for a William Waterston, age 40, departing Glasgow on the vessel Bolivia for New York, arriving there on 21 September 1880"
Assuming this the correct William in question.
This appears to be the immigration record for William on the SS Bolivia in 1880.
He appears to be married with four children.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSK-GMG5
-
While your posts are extremely good, giving a lot of info. there's an awful lot of identifying info. missing too...
"So what happened to Alexander Waterston after the birth of last child John in 1847 ? until I found his death on Aug 30 1890 in Kirklands Asylum, Bothwell. Usual Residence Raploch Street, Larkhall a Pauper Lunatic - Formally a hawker of small wares."
Who was the informant & was his wife named?
What is his occ. given as on the marriages of his children you have (dates)? which may help to find him on census'?
Annie
-
Hi Annie
Thank you - I totally understand what you are saying about my posts -
I will send you the link to my website here with all the information you would need so you can see exactly what I have
Essentially I just want to track down Grace and William - If Grace died as a child I'll accept it but I'm really hoping her life ended up long and happy - Her family suffered enough.
With regards to William it feels like he was young and restless and if he was anything like his brother John then that would be true - I just want to find him and see what fate had in store for him
Here is the link https://www.secretlives.co.uk/alexander-waterson-catherine-haddow
Hopefully someone can find these 2 lost souls. I've exhausted everything in my capabilities
Paul
-
I will send you the link to my website here with all the information you would need so you can see exactly what I have
Essentially I just want to track down Grace and William
With regards to William - I just want to find him and see what fate had in store for him
Here is the link https://www.secretlives.co.uk/alexander-waterson-catherine-haddow
Hopefully someone can find these 2 lost souls. I've exhausted everything in my capabilities
Have you read over Reply #15 & have you revisited the info. given here?...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=788595.msg6441301#msg6441301
which included a link to the manifest https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSK-GMG5
Your website has the wrong date for the William who emigrated in 1880...
"On the 21st of September 1889 William Immigrated from Glasgow, Scotland to New York, USA on board the Bolivia. He was never heard from again."
There's no evidence of whether you have confirmed or eliminated that William who had 4 children with him when he left Scotland with his unnamed wife i.e. I think this lead is what you need to be aiming at, finding births for the children named which will give the mother's maiden name, then the marriage of said William to the mother of those children which will/should in turn name both his parents?
Annie
-
Annie
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. No idea how I missed it.
Problem is - No records of any of these children's births. Edmund you would have though would have been easy enough but nothing at all regarding him - I've tried all the spelling variations
-
The closest I could find for Edmund & hopefully his name was misheard in the rush to list all passengers...
WATERSON EDWARD 1871 - 646/1 363 Govan and Govan Church
The surname fits, the location of departure fits & his age of 10 on departure fits, may be worth checking?
Annie
-
In Ireland Edward/Edmund are interchangeable so perhaps this also applies to Scotland?
-
Thanks for all of this
I've checked out the Edward Waterson - It's not him - Father listed as John Waterson and Catherine Harrison married in Liverpool, England 28th Feb 1870.
I actually think the William who travelled to New York wasn't my William at all. The birth of any potential children don't point to any of the areas my family lived in and further records of them have the children listed as being born in the USA as well as the wife being born there too. I think its the red herring which has created this brick wall.
I dont think I'm any closer to finding William or Grace - All avenues have been exhausted -
-
Peter Strachan and Jane Waterson are buried in Bent cemetery, Hamilton and their headstone mentions a son Robert who died in the gold mines of Nicaragua
-
Paul -- just wanted to say how amazing your website it ... I'm not even related in any way but it made for fascinating reading!!!
Not sure if you've found anything on Grace Waterson Law aka Grace Clyde since you last posted?
As you know, Grace Waterson was born 3 September 1862 in Hamilton, LAN to mother Helen Waterson.
Helen also had a son Patrick Waterson born 8 Feb 1870 in Eastwood, REN and since you noted that Helen and Thomas Law were living together before their marriage, Patrick must have been his son. Not with them in 1871 though, so must have died as an infant.
As Grace Clyde she married Denis Duffy on 13 July 1882 at the Roman Catholic Chapel in Hamilton and her parents were listed as James Clyde, coal miner, and Helen Clyde, nee Waterson - both deceased. His parents were John Duffy, farmer, and Margaret Canning.
To make it more interesting, Helen and James Clyde never married each other - in October 1862 he married Agnes Cornfield in Hamilton LAN. At some point, Grace must have learned that he was her father so she used the surname Clyde at her wedding and even later on in a prison record in Ayrshire in 1889 as well as the surname of a son born after her 1882 marriage but having the surname written as Clyde or Duffy.
Grace and Denis were the parents of several children!!
She died in 1915 in Hamilton LAN
DUFFY, GRACE
53
WATERSON
1915
647 / 631
Hamilton
I hope this helps you track down all of Grace Waterson Clyde Law Duffy's children!! :)
-
AncestryFinder
Thank you so much for this. You have no idea what a gift this is.
Up until now I have never found Grace. I have no idea how you managed to find this information but I'm stunned and really really pleased.
Thank you once again
Paul
-
Paul --
I was researching James Clyde for another tree I was helping with and noticed that someone had him listed in their online tree at Ancestry as the spouse of Helen Waterson with daughter Grace Clyde.
Just as I was about to leave a comment letting them know that he married Agnes Cornfield in the month following Grace's birth and never married Helen, I thought I better do a little digging of my own to be certain.
I found someone online at the FamilySearch website that had actually kindly shared the birth, marriage + death certs that they had purchased and saw that indeed, Grace Waterson gave her name as Grace Clyde when she married and her father as James Clyde, coal miner, deceased (and of course, Helen Waterson, also deceased).
Indeed, James Clyde, coal miner, husband of Agnes C died in the Blantyre Explosion (or Hamilton explosion) in Oct 1877 along with 2 very young sons of his.
When I came across your website, I couldn't find a "contact" link so was delighted to find something posted here in case you didn't already have this info.
So glad that it's going to help you further your tree along!!
-
Thank you very much.
I've researched James Clyde and Agnes and daughter Grace this afternoon so If you want any of those certificates which i have paid for and downloaded then I am more than happy to share with you if it helps someone else.
Let me know and I can send them over
Paul
-
Thanks for the very kind offer Paul but I don't need them .... if you go to WikiTree.com and search for Grace Waterson born 1862, you'll come up with the profile that has been created for her -- all are open for adoption if you're interested :)
It's always exciting when a brick wall comes tumbling down, isn't it!!! And since Grace and Denis Duffy had so many children, there are likely oodles of descendants running around.
Even though her name at birth was Grace Waterson, all her childrens' birth records have her maiden name as Clyde and any death records that I found at ScotlandsPeople, mother's maiden name also listed as Clyde ..... all making me think that her mother must have told her who her real father was before she died in 1876, or maybe, at that time, Hamilton was small enough that many people knew.
If you ever check into her prison record, I'd be curious as to how she broke the law - it was in 1891 in Cumnock, Ayrshire when son James Duffy's birth was also registered as James Clyde for some odd reason, especially since she'd been married since 1882 (??)
SCOTLAND PRISON RECORDS INDEX
Name Grace Clyde or Duffy
Occupation House Keeper
Residence Crosshouse
Year Jailed 1889
Age 27
Estimated Birth Year 1862
Birthplace Hamilton
Prison Ayr
County Ayrshire
NRS Reference HH21/27/13 p. 81
-
Thanks once again
I would never have found this information on my own.
I'm pleased Grace lived a life and didn't die as a child like I first suspected.
I'm going to try and track down some living relatives in the hope there are some old family photos.
The prison term was for one month - Looking athe charge it looks like assault. I'm sure there is a story there too...I've attached the entry record.
Paul
-
Attachments
-
Not the 1889 incident, but Grace Clyde or Duffy, Low Blantyre Road, Crosshouse, was briefly mentioned in the Friday 15 February 1895 Hamilton Herald and Lanarkshire Weekly News under the Police Court section, re a breach of the peace there.
Also found mention a Grace Clyde or Duffy, of Glasgow Road, Greenfield, on Friday 30 July 1897 in the Hamilton Herald and Lanarkshire Weekly News under Hamilton Police Court, being given option of a fine or 14 days imprisonment for creating disturbances on two days.
Assault and breach of peace noted on Friday 30 December 1898 in Hamilton Herald and Lanarkshire Weekly News, again under Hamilton Police Court, a Grace Clyde or Duffy, no address mentioned, was fined for assault and breach of the peace.
-
The 1895 report should say Low Blantyre Road, Greenfield
-
Thanks for correcting my error. I had actually looked at it before posting, thinking something wasn't right, but for some reason still posted. One of those days, methinks ;D.