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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bestie on Sunday 28 November 21 20:16 GMT (UK)
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I have Joseph Mingay Tall in the 1881 census living in his father's house on Belvoir Road. (RG11 679 77 24)
Joseph Tall 62 born Bedford, Head, Architect
Sarah Tall 55 Wife
Joseph Mingay Tall 29 Concrete Builder (Son)
Ellen S Tall (Joseph Mingay’s Wife)
Sarah E Tall (Grand daughter)
Clara G Tall 5 Grand daughter)
Joseph Tall 3 (Grandson)
Roschelly Tall 0 (Grand daughter)
Can anyone tell me where he was in 1891 0r 1901? Thanks. Jim
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Son Sydney Charles b 1882 died 1883
Have you used www.familysearch.org to look for later census entries?
1891 ref is RG12 piece 545 folio 123 page 24
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It appears that JMT deserted his family by 1883. His wife and two of his daughters are listed in a Poor Law School District record image on Ancestry.
Name and address of nearest relative: "Mother Ellen Sarah in the house. Deserted by father".
As such, could JMT be using an alias in 1891-1901?
London, England, Poor Law School District Registers, 1852-1918
Name: Clara Tall
Admission Age: 8
Record Type: Admission and Discharge Register
Birth Date: abt 1875
Admission Date: 30 Jan 1883
Admission Place: London, England
School: Brighton Road School
School District: South Metropolitan School District
Mother: Ellen Sarah
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When Clara marries in 1894 she says her father is deceased
If Joseph has left by 1883, who is the father of the two younger children with Ellen on 1891?
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Here's Ellen on 1901 in Camberwell (children all listed as born there)
Helen Tall 45 - b Newington, office caretaker, widow
Joseph Tall 23 - florist's assistant
Frank Tall 17 - stationer's warehouseman
Teddy Tall 13
RG13; 520; 12; 11
father is builder, but not stated as deceased, on Joseph's marriage cert
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Joseph Mingay Tall died Essex 22.12.1941. He can be found on the 1939 register in Essex
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It looks like he re-married in 1933. There's quite a few newspaper references for Joseph. The 1923 item paints a rather sad picture, and begs the question as to who the "wife" was, as it's doesn't appear to have been first wife Ellen.
GRO BMD references:
1933 Q2 Marriage - Joseph Tall & Ellen E Hooker; Braintree; 04A; 2142
1938 Q3 Death - Ellen Elizabeth Tall; age 75 (born c1863); Braintree; 04A; 825
1941 Q4 Death - Joseph Mingay Tall; age 90 (born c1851); Braintree; 04A; 1387
Daily News (London)
28 Apr 1923
A Forgotten Inventor
Man Once Famous Now In Poverty
Pioneer Of Revolution In Building
Coggeshall (Essex)
page 7
- Fifty-seven years ago Joseph Tall,
- a precocious London schoolboy of fourteen-and-a-half,
- with a passion for "making things",
- took out the first patent in this or any country
- for a method of reinforcing concrete
...
- On Tramp For Work
- A few years before the Great War of 1914 the same Joseph Tall
- was tramping England in search of work.
- For five nights he slept out with the human wreckage on the Thames Embankment
- With his wife he lined up in the bread queues.
- One day a lady, whom Tall recognised as a popular actress,
- came by, and, apparently touched by something specially pathetic about the woman,
- pressed a sovereign into her hand.
- "That lady," he said to me this afternoon,
- "didn't know she was giving charity to the wife of the man
- who had built the flat she was living in
- and invented the material is was built of
- But I knew it."
...
- he is 72 years old, and Mrs Tall ten years younger
...
- They lost their only son in the war,
- and their one daughter is married to a farm labourer
...
[long item, has photo of Joseph]
Chelmsford Chronicle
12 Aug 1938
page 10
Coggeshall
- The death occurred on Monday night of
- Mrs Ellen E Tall,
- wife of Mr J M Tall,
- of The Bungalows, Tilkey Road,
- at the age of 75 years
- Funeral to-day (Friday),
- at the Parish Church, at 3.30
Chelmsford Chronicle
26 Dec 1941
page 5
Night Walking At 90
- Coroner held an inquest on Monday on
- Joseph Mingay Tall,
- aged 90,
- of Tilkey Road, Coggeshall,
- who died at St Michael's Hospital, Braintree,
- on Sunday,
- from injuries sustained on Dec 9,
- when he was knocked down by a cyclist
- Stanley H Haines, aged 14, of Tilkey Road,
- said he and three other boys were cycling
- in Tilkey Road at 7 pm,
- proceeding in a single file,
- witness being last,
- They met deceased, who had a torch,
- and passed the three leading cyclists,
- and then walked into witness,
- who had an authorised light
- Verdict, accidental death
EDIT: Added a bit more info from the 1923 newspaper item
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Just for reference, the other RC thread on Joseph.
J Tall (Family History Beginners Board)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=848068.0
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No mention of father JMT in his son's Poor Law School District Register record below.
Address for mother is 139 Alderminster's Road, Bermondsey.
London, England, Poor Law School District Registers, 1852-1918
Name: Joseph Mingey Tall
Admission Age: 8
Record Type: Admission and Discharge Register
Birth Date: abt 1877
Admission Date: 22 Sep 1885
Admission Place: London, England
School: Brighton Road School
School District: South Metropolitan School District
Mother: Ellen
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There are some additional notes in the Bermondsey Board of Guardians (Register of children sent to schools of the South Metropolitan School District, 1869-1903) records on Family Search:
Tall, Ada (age 5) and Tall, Rosetta (age 4)
Date of Admission to Schools - 22 Jan 1885
Date of Discharge from Schools - 30 Jan 1885
Observations - "To Herne Bay"
"Father JM Tall Belvoir Rd, Londsby ? Lane, Dulwich"
"Mother 139 Alderminster Rd"
Tall, Ada (age 6)
Date of Admission to Schools - 18 Sept 1886
Date of Discharge from Schools - 29 Sept 1890
Observations - "To Herne Bay"
"Father JM Tall Belvoir Rd, Londsby ? Lane, Dulwich"
"Mother 139 Alderminster Rd"
Tall, Rosetta (age 6)
Date of Admission to Schools - 18 Sept 1886
Date of Discharge from Schools - 5 June 1894
Observations - "Central London District School at Hanwell"
Tall, Ada (age 11)
"15 Brymer Rd, Albany Rd, Old Kent Rd - 6/8/1889"
Date of Admission to Schools - 7 Sept 1891
Date of Discharge from Schools - blank
Tall, Joseph M (age eight)
"42 Marlborough ? Rd, Old Kent Rd"
"Mother - 15 Brymer Rd, Albany Rd, Old Kent Rd - 6/8/1889""
Date of Admission to Schools - 22 Sept 1885
Date of Discharge from Schools - 27 May 1893
Observations: "On trial to Gordon Memorial Home, 334 Cable Street, Shadwell.
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Not certain which workhouse JMT's wife Ellen Sarah is at in January 1883.
Bermondsey Workhouse? St. Olave's Union Workhouse (Bermondsey)?
If she can be located in Jan 1883 the record(s) may provide additional notes as to JMT's desertion.
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The first Mrs Ellen Tall is still alive in 1939 and living with son Edward, also in Essex
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WOW! Thank you all so much for this information.... I thought I had Joseph's story nailed, but all of these added details mean a complete rewrite! He was partly responsible for building the terrace I live in and in 1881 was living next door with his father hence my interest. The story he gave to the Chelmsford Chronicle seems peppered with mistruths!
Thanks again. Jim
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[long item, has photo of Joseph]
Any chance of a scan or screen grab of the photo of Joseph?
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Sorry, just noticed your request, Bestie.The photo isn't the best quality, which is often the case with photos in the scanned newspaper pages.
Full article
https://postimg.cc/Ty26w465
Photo
https://postimg.cc/75n4qypy