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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: wendish001 on Friday 26 November 21 07:23 GMT (UK)
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Hello I have reached a brick wall with finding information on the parents and grandparents of my ancestor Bertha May Murless (born 2 July 1892 Charters Towers) who was put into Diamantina Orphanage on the 2nd of June 1897.
This is the information I have so far:
FATHER:
Harry/Henry Murless
Born 1867 Adelaide, South Australia
MOTHER:
Ellen Bowles
Born 1858 Bathurst, New South Wales.
Bertha may have had a sister called Edith Emily Murless who also went to an orphanage and was born on the 24th of April 1890, Avadale, Queensland. On the document I found of her, her mothers name was listed as Sophia Bowles.
Any help would be appreciated!! Thankyou,
Wendish001
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What information is on Bertha’s marriage certificate?
I think that Edith Emily Murless born 1890 is a sister. Father is Henry Murless on her birth rego. It may be worth looking at the other details on her birth registration. On Edith’s 1908 NSW marriage cert. her mother is named “Ellen Sophia” and father Henry Murless, a “gentleman”, deceased.
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What is the source of this information?
Harry/Henry MURLESS Born 1867 Adelaide, South Australia
Ellen BOWLES Born 1858 Bathurst, New South Wales.
"On the document I found of her, her mothers name was listed as Sophia Bowles."
What is the document?
Do you have the orphanage records?
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The only MURLESS family I can see in SA records was Henry with a wife named Mary Ann BAKER, and their only son Henry was born in 1883.
Mary and two daughters and the infant Henry arrived in Adelaide on the ship Ashmore in 1884.
Henry Murless, aged 44, died in SA 30 Jan 1891.
There was a Henry MURLESS, a miner in Western Australia, and later at Broken Hill where he was implicated in having an affair with another man’s wife.
I suspect if he was ever a miner at Charters Towers then ‘your’ Harry/Henry was more likely to be ‘this miner’.
Essie
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What information is on Bertha’s marriage certificate?
I think that Edith Emily Murless born 1890 is a sister. Father is Henry Murless on her birth rego. It may be worth looking at the other details on her birth registration. On Edith’s 1908 NSW marriage cert. her mother is named “Ellen Sophia” and father Henry Murless, a “gentleman”, deceased.
That mention of him being deceased is super helpful thankyou!!
I don't have access to Bertha's marriage certificate yet. I do have her death certificate which lists her parents as Henry Murless and Helen Bowles.
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Hi wendish001,
I have spent some time today looking at the MURLESS people of South Australia.
It is a little tangled and at this point I will not try to pass on information.
However, it would be a great help to everyone if you would kindly tell us all the information you have and where it has come from.
This gives everyone a clear picture to work on.
It does not matter that some of your details may not be correct, as we can make more accurate searches if needed. ;D
Meantime, did you have the divorce details and remarriage for the possible sister Edith Emily who first married in 1908?
The full story
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/117585849
The remarriage.
4689/1923
CROWLEY Charles L
BUCKLEY Edith E
Sue
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A word of warning - just because it says he is dead, may not be correct. If he abandoned the children when young, they may have assumed or was told he was dead.
I would recommend getting the birth image ($23.30) for Edith Emily Murless
Birth date: 24/04/1890
Mother's name: Sophia Bowles
Father/parent's name: Harry Murless
Registration details: 1890/C/2333
I would also get Bertha's marriage record as it is likely to be more accurate than her death cert.
Hopefully those 2 documents should give you more to go on - and then either post them here or transcribe them. All details including witness names are important to know.
It is an unusual surname. I had a little look last night and there are a couple of possible leads for deaths in South Australia, and also mentions of Henry Murless in the papers which caught my interest. Just need to get more info from those certificates.
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This birth and death is a match for another Henry MURLESS who died at Crystal Brook Sth Aust
Henry Owen MURLESS born Jun qrtr 1869 Kensington, UK
MURLESS Henry aged 50 d. 20 Jul 1919
Essie
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What is the source of this information?
Harry/Henry MURLESS Born 1867 Adelaide, South Australia
Ellen BOWLES Born 1858 Bathurst, New South Wales.
"On the document I found of her, her mothers name was listed as Sophia Bowles."
What is the document?
Do you have the orphanage records?
The information source is from Edith Emily Murless' 1890 birth certificate. This is what it says about her parents:
FATHER:
Harry Murless
Labourer
23 yrs
Adelaide South Australia
WHERE AND WHERE MARRIED: Illegitimate
MOTHER:
Sophia Bowles
32 yrs
Bathurst N.S.Wales
I have access currently to Bertha May Murless' orphanage record:
Page 125 of Diamentina Orphanage
NAME OF CHILDREN:
Murless Bertha
WHERE BORN:
Charters Towers
WHEN BORN:
2nd July 1892
WHEN ADMITTED:
2nd June 1897
WHY ADMITTED:
Father deserted
Mother in gaol
NAME OF PARENTS:
Henry and Ellen Murless
OCCUPATION OF PARENTS:
Unknown
RELIGION OF PARENTS:
Unknown
REMARKS:
*The remarks are written in such small and faded hand writing that it is difficult for me to make out*
I did have access to Edith Emily Murless' orphanage document but it was before I had thought to back up my files and I lost it due to a virus. I will be able to find it again.
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Regarding Edith Emily Murless marriage in 1908. Witnesses were J. Beddall and B.Winters - are these names familiar?
Also it says her mother was in Queensland. see snip
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Mention here of money being paid out for 2 orphans by the Charters Towers Odd Fellows Lodge in mid 1897. May or may not be related.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/81639013?searchTerm=orphan%20AND%20%22charters%20towers%22
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Thankyou everyone who for their help so far!! I am going to list out all the info I have on them.
BERTHA MURLESS ORPHANAGE DOC:
Read above ^
HISTORICAL BIRTH IMAGE: EDITH EMILY
Where and where born - 24th April 1890, Hlugh St Adavale (*Difficult to read, could be hlush st
Father - (Name) Harry Murless (Occupation)Labourer (Age) 23yrs (Birthplace) Adelaide, SA
When and where married - Illegitimate
Mother - (Name) Sophia Bowles (Age) 32 yrs (Birthplace) Bathurst N.S.W
Informant - Certified to in writing by Harry Murless, Father, Adavale
Witness - Mr O'Keeffe
HISTORICAL DEATH IMAGE: BERTHA MAY SHADWELL
When died and where - 6 August 1949, Brisbane Hospital
Name - Bertha May Shadwell
Cause of death- _____ of uterus (duration of illness) 3 weeks
Father - Henry Murless
Mother - Helen Bowles
Whitnesses to burial/cremation - *names are incredibly difficult to make out*
Where born and how long in the state - Charters Towers Queensland, since birth
If deceased was married - (Where) Brisbane, Queensland (at what age) 19 yrs (to whom) Richard James Shadwell.
10 May 1897 - THE MORNING BULLETIN (ROCKHAMPTON) *FOUND ON TROVE*
Ellen Murless was sentenced by the Mutta-
burra Bench to three months' imprisonment
in Rockhampton Gaol for being an idle and
disorderly person. There also arrived by the
same train Bertha May Murless, six years
of age, a daughter of the last-named prisoner.
She was ordered to be sent to the reformatory
at Toowoomba for a term of seven years.
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I also at one point had a newspaper clipping that was a message from either Edith or Bertha who was looking for their father (I can't remember exactly what it said.) This was before I backed up my files and I unfortunately lost it to a virus. I found it on trove but have not been able to find it since.
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Regarding Edith Emily Murless marriage in 1908. Witnesses were J. Beddall and B.Winters - are these names familiar?
Also it says her mother was in Queensland. see snip
These names don't look familiar to me. Her mother also went to prison in Queensland I believe but I haven't been able to find any more information on that other than in one newspaper clipping!
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Hi Wendish001
I will put up this information as a kind of background to your search.
As has been mentioned above, there was more than one Henry MURLESS 's around at the time.
Confirming here, Mary Ann BAKER UK marriage-
Dec 1868
BAKER Mary Ann
MURLESS Henry
Bridport
5a/807
Immigrants to SA 1884. MURLESS Henry Rosina Mary A and Eliza J. I suspect her husband Henry had arrived prior.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/43804640
MURLESS, Henry Philip mms BAKER
GRO Ref 1882. J Quarter
POPLAR Volume 01C Page 670
The daughter Rosina died in 1889, and the address is given in this notice.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47051582
This is the 1891 death of Rosina’s father (and also Henry Philip’s father, the husband of Mary nee BAKER.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/48089774
Mary re-married-
ALLEN James
BAKER Mary Ann
Port Adelaide
176/247 in 1893.
I do not see this family group as part of the situation with you people of interest.
I believe the chap who was at Broken Hill ( in trouble) named Henry MURLESS is also a South Australian. He was married to Jean/Jane who was a longtime publican in SA and NSW
This item, the subject being the divorce scandal mentioned above by Essie, states that the wife of the co-respondent is Jane MURLISS (letters etc...)
1911
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/168744878
The 50 year old Henry MURLESS died in SA
MURLESS Henry 1919.
Details of his death-
This story refers to Jean and her husband Harry,
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95457063
And funeral notice
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95457079
Return thanks from Mrs J Murless and her son re their recent loss 1919
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95457285
She re-married to John HAMILTON
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/210643715
NEXT POST follows
Sue
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Mrs Jean MURLESS was nee CAMERON.
Someone was searching for her in 1910 and she had previously been at Broken Hill
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/209901607
She used both her names
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95355514
It looks as if she and Henry were not actually married until 1902.
Henry MURLESS
Jeane CAMERON
Place Coolgardie, Western Australia
Date1902
Registration 130
A son
MURLESS Henry Rodbur
Parents Henry & Jeane CAMERON
At Coolgardie Reg 658/1902
I find this snip of particular interest, but may be only coincidental. The names are jumbled but possibly are the same couple.
Into Keppel Bay from Melbourne MURLESS Henry and Mrs. and...?
1889
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/213465877
Sue
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These names don't look familiar to me. Her mother also went to prison in Queensland I believe but I haven't been able to find any more information on that other than in one newspaper clipping!
This item?
In 1897, mother and daughter Bertha in trouble with the law and child sent to reformatory
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52523806
Was this the item where Edith was searching for her father? 1911
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28135309?searchTerm=%22edith%20murless%22~16
Sue
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The Henry Murless involved in the Smethurst divorce also took my interest.
There may be more information about him in the divorce records
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX1241188&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,Henry%20murless&offset=0
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Yes, he is certainly the husband of Jean, the hotel licensee.
This couple covered many Australian States in their busy lifetimes.
Sue
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Hi,
I am wondering if the surname for the 1858 birth in Bathurst NSW ought to be BOWLER rather than BOWLES. Here is a live link to an index of surnames for the Pioneer families from Bathurst and surrounds. https://www.bathurstfhg.asn.au/bathurst-pioneers/index-of-surnames/
https://www.bathurstfhg.asn.au/bathurst-pioneers/
JM
Thankyou everyone who for their help so far!! I am going to list out all the info I have on them.
'......
HISTORICAL BIRTH IMAGE: EDITH EMILY
Where and where born - 24th April 1890, Hlugh St Adavale (*Difficult to read, could be hlush st
Father - (Name) Harry Murless (Occupation)Labourer (Age) 23yrs (Birthplace) Adelaide, SA
When and where married - Illegitimate
Mother - (Name) Sophia Bowles (Age) 32 yrs (Birthplace) Bathurst N.S.W
Informant - Certified to in writing by Harry Murless, Father, Adavale
Witness - Mr O'Keeffe
.....
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I am wondering if the surname for the 1858 birth in Bathurst NSW ought to be BOWLER rather than BOWLES.
JM, I was also wondering about BOYLE.
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I wonder if wendish001 could use the snipping tool to capture and post that little section with the surname of Ellen/Sophia.
It may be worth some scrutiny.
Sue
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yes, that's also possible and logical Neale.
There were four or five petitions (or contra-petitions) for Bathurst township in the late 1850s and into 1860s re becoming incorporated as a municipality. Also Bathurst and surrounds was its own Police District in that era.
Trove limiting searches to NSW Govt Gazette
Bathurst Police District : 25 Nov 1858,
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229602711/12611083
Bathurst Municipality Petitions:
(I think this is the first one) 30 Dec 1858
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229603452 two pages of names.
4 Jan 1859 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228714028 three pages, 2 are names!
18 Jan 1859 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228714325 3000 inhabitants
12 March1859 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228715723 more names, this time countering the earlier petition.
28 Sept 1859 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228601830 probably countering the counter petition
It was not uncommon for the petitions to include signatures of females.
JM
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I wonder if wendish001 could use the snipping tool to capture and post that little section with the surname of Ellen/Sophia.
It may be worth some scrutiny.
Sue
Yes, Excellent thought.
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females signing Bathurst petitions... perhaps their nee surnames or perhaps their known by surnames or perhaps their formal married surnames... but it can be a worthwhile search if looking for females in the gold rush years in regional NSW....
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228604289 29 December 1859.
See there's Sophia WYNDRED, and Mary BUDD and Bridget HUGHES and Ellen HILL and so on ....
JM
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I wonder if wendish001 could use the snipping tool to capture and post that little section with the surname of Ellen/Sophia.
It may be worth some scrutiny.
Sue
Agreed.
Also what details are on Bertha’s marriage cert. and who are witnesses.
On Edith’s marriage the mother is recorded just as Ellen Sophia - No surname, almost as if it was unknown.
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Ellen/Sophia without a maiden surname - umm.... I have not re-read thread at the minute, but it may mean that the informant was NOT asked for it, or had overlooked providing it, or if it was a South Australian record, that it was perhaps NOT a requirement of the civil registration process at that time...
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
JM :)
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NSW marriage 1908
I get the impression the maiden name was not known?
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Yes, I agree. I am just waiting on phone call from ancient rellies including retired senior officer of NSW BDM .... fingers crossed he is not going to say 'egg on face girlie'
JM
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And the retired NSW BDM senior officer says YES, the maiden name was NOT provided and the line usually interpreted to indicate that it had been sought by the celebrant, but no one knew it. http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/ma1899n15112/
JM ;D
ADD, the next significant changes to NSW Marriage Act after the 1899 Act are found in the 1915 Act here: http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/hist_act/ma191585.pdf
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Interesting that Edith nee MURLESS was quite aware of her father's name, but lied about his living/dead status. Possibly just did not know.
Married in 1908 she stated he was deceased and a gentleman
In 1911, as I posted in Reply #16, she was advertising for contact from him.
Sue
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I think that address in that advert for her father would be using a commercial business perhaps as though it had a side line offering a bit like a poste restante address ...
City of Sydney Assessment Books. Macquarie Ward, 1911.
King Street
Number in Rate Book : 9019
No. of House : 127
Name of Person Rated : Chapman & Hazelwood
Name of Owner or Landlord of Property : Australian Mutual Fire Insurance Coy
House, Warehouse or Shop: Chambers
Brick, Stone Wood or Iron : Brick & Stone
Slated, Shingled or otherwise : Slate
2 Floors
14 Rooms
Gross Annual Value £456
Nett Value fixed by Quarter Sessions £411
https://archives.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/nodes/view/1842002#idx2519416
Sands Directories 1910 Sydney (and years before and after then too)
Chapman & Hazlewood, Real Property and Financial Agents, Estate Managers, 127 King Street.
JM
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Re Bathurst in 1858 for birth place ….
I have not met with much success at all searching for birth for Helen/Ellen/Sophia and BOWLES circa 1858 at NSW BDM online.
There is an Ellen BODEN, parents as Martin and Elizabeth, registered Bathurst Ref 5083/1863. I widened the search to BODEN, same parents but NO district – so all of NSW 1850 to 1885. This was the only BODEN.
There is also a Sophy A BOWD, parents as Edward and Esther, registered Bathurst Ref 4828/1862. Widened that search too, same – the only BOWD was Sophy.
JM
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These names don't look familiar to me. Her mother also went to prison in Queensland I believe but I haven't been able to find any more information on that other than in one newspaper clipping!
This item?
In 1897, mother and daughter Bertha in trouble with the law and child sent to reformatory
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52523806
Was this the item where Edith was searching for her father? 1911
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28135309?searchTerm=%22edith%20murless%22~16
Sue
Hi Sue,
Yes those are both the items that I was talking about. Thankyou for finding that!
In 1911 there is also a notice of Henry Murless being found. It is in the news paper for Perth. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/76804185?searchTerm=Henry%20Murless
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The WA sighting for Henry is unlikely to be the same chap in the NSW newspaper (Sydney Morning Herald). The WA sighting mentions it was advertised in the Government Gazette - likely to be the WA Gazette. It is online here: (not via Trove). https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/government-gazettes/government-gazettes-western-australia
JM
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I wonder if wendish001 could use the snipping tool to capture and post that little section with the surname of Ellen/Sophia.
It may be worth some scrutiny.
Sue
Here! First image is from Edith's birth certificate and the second one is from Bertha's death certificate.
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I think that address in that advert for her father would be using a commercial business perhaps as though it had a side line offering a bit like a poste restante address ...
Sands Directories 1910 Sydney (and years before and after then too)
Chapman & Hazlewood, Real Property and Financial Agents, Estate Managers, 127 King Street.
That is the address of Edith's Murless' husband - Francis Albert Buckley, recorded in 1917 Police Gazette
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Yes, he is certainly the husband of Jean, the hotel licensee.
This couple covered many Australian States in their busy lifetimes.
Sue
I will try to get a hold of the marriage cert of Harry/Henry and Jean. The info that you provided is great, thankyou!! What is the main piece of information that leads you to believe that this is the same Henry/Harry?
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The Henry Murless involved in the Smethurst divorce also took my interest.
There may be more information about him in the divorce records
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX1241188&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,Henry%20murless&offset=0
Hi,
I was not intending to confirm this Henry is the father of your MURLESS girls.
I was merely agreeing with Neale, that the Smethurst incident chap was certainly the husband of Jean the licensee of hotels.
I am sorry if I have muddied the waters there.
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Sands 1915 Sydney Directory has Francis BUCKLEY, caretaker, 127 King Street.
Chapman & Hazelwood seem to moving about then to Castlereagh St address. :)
JM
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An Aside ... BUCKLEY
NSW Electoral Roll 1902 (first with enrolled females), EAST SYDNEY, and polling place : King
Julia BUCKLEY, 127 King Street, Sydney, domestic duties
Francis BUCKLEY, 144 Pitt Street, Sydney, caretaker
JM comments .... I am sure that in the 1970s at least that 144 Pitt Street would be the Corner of King and Pitt Streets - first hand experience.
So I have looked at Sands Street Directory for 1902***, for King St ... yes ! 127 King is the Corner of King and Pitt and Yes, 144 Pitt is the Corner of Pitt and King...
Who was in that building? Well yes it would likely have needed a caretaker...
Australian Mutual Fire Chambers (as mentioned in an earlier post)...
Several solicitors, Accountants, Freehold Land Agents, Indent Merchants and Yes, a caretaker HIS name was James White.
Sorry, but I have not found Harry/Henry MURLESS ::) which was who I was expecting to possibly find somewhere in Sydney CBD pre WWI.
ADD *** oops IT SHOULD BE 1905. 1902 is a typo.
JM
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I find this snip of particular interest, but may be only coincidental. The names are jumbled but possibly are the same couple.
Into Keppel Bay from Melbourne MURLESS Henry and Mrs. and...?
1889
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/213465877
Sue
I wish I knew how to find more about this. The time and place seem likely, but....
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The Henry Murless involved in the Smethurst divorce also took my interest.
There may be more information about him in the divorce records
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX1241188&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,Henry%20murless&offset=0
Hi,
I was not intending to confirm this Henry is the father of your MURLESS girls.
I was merely agreeing with Neale, that the Smethurst incident chap was certainly the husband of Jean the licensee of hotels.
I am sorry if I have muddied the waters there.
Oh no worries! I must've misread.
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I find this snip of particular interest, but may be only coincidental. The names are jumbled but possibly are the same couple.
Into Keppel Bay from Melbourne MURLESS Henry and Mrs. and...?
1889
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/213465877
Sue
The timing of that would make sense for the birth of Edith and Bertha in Queensland. I'll keep trying to look into this.
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Here is a screenshot of the remarks section on Bertha's orphanage document. I can't quite make out what it says.
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Here is a screenshot of the remarks section on Bertha's orphanage document. I can't quite make out what it says.
Wendy, can you please post a larger size snip. It is not possible to zoom in without losing focus. (You will need to rename it.)
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I have also found Edith Emily Murless' orphanage admission doc.
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM313131
Page 29
NAMES OF CHILDREN - Murless Edith Emily
WHERE BORN - Adavale
WHEN BORN - 24 April 90
WHEN ADMITTED - *looks like* 5th of Feb 1896
WHY ADMITTED - Deserted by father *the rest is unreadable so I have attached a snippet of it to see if anyone else can read it*
ON WHAT TERMS ADMITTED - Nil
WHEN DISCHARGED - *Unreadable - have attached image*
TO WHOM DISCHARGED - *Unreadable - have attached image*
FOR WHAT FURLOUGHED DISCHARGE - Boarded out *there are two other words afterwards looks like 'from C-------'
NAME OF PARENTS - Harry Murless, Nellie Murless.
OCCUPATION OF PARENTS - (Father) Labourer, (Mother) *Mothers is difficult to make out*
RELIGFION OF PARENTS - Church of England, Church of England
RESIDENCE OF PARENTS - (Father) Unknown (Mother) *address unreadable*
REMARKS - Boarded invered (?)
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Here is where to find the version of Bertha's orphanage details that I am looking at.
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM268111
ITEM DR29903
Look for page 125 - viewing from PDF will make it page 9.
Bertha's name will be listed 7 lines down.
I also added a larger photo. On the photo it will be listed 3rd line down.
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The Henry Murless involved in the Smethurst divorce also took my interest.
There may be more information about him in the divorce records
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX1241188&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,Henry%20murless&offset=0
This is quite interesting because i've found a lot of newspaper clippings on trove about this from June 1911 in the Sydney newspapers.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/239090882?searchTerm=Henry%20Murless
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/168744878?searchTerm=Henry%20Murless
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15253541?searchTerm=Henry%20Murless
Then it was in July 1911 that Edith asks for her dad to communicate with her. I wonder if it could be possible that she didn't know that her dad was alive until this event and she decided to reach out to him.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28135309?searchTerm=%22edith%20murless%22~16
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**Removed message because not relevant**
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I have also found Edith Emily Murless' orphanage admission doc.
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM313131
Page 29
NAMES OF CHILDREN - Murless Edith Emily
WHERE BORN - Adavale
WHEN BORN - 24 April 90
WHEN ADMITTED - 5 Feb 1896 corrected
WHY ADMITTED – Father deserted children. Mother destitute and unable to support them, has another child to maintain.
ON WHAT TERMS ADMITTED - Nil
WHEN DISCHARGED – 17 March 1896 boarded out with E Clark; 8th Dec 1898 boarded out to E A Valentine
TO WHOM DISCHARGED – to father (no date given)
NAME OF PARENTS - Harry Murless, Nellie Murless.
OCCUPATION OF PARENTS - (Father) Labourer, (Mother) domestic servant
RELIGFION OF PARENTS - Church of England, Church of England
RESIDENCE OF PARENTS - (Father) Unknown (Mother) Mrs Cousins, GPO Rockhampton
REMARKS – warrant issued (against father's name)
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From Berth's file; Last column reads :
Boarded with Mrs McArthur 17/6/97, …? H.G.S 8/9/??
Bertha was discharged to her mother
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On e reader, so cannot zoom enough to help much, BUT if discharged March 1896, then the August 1896 is a re-admission... so there may be earlier document with more info ?
JM
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It appears that Bertha was discharged to her mother, and Edith was discharged to her father. Sisters separated.
I suspect Henry Murless then went off to NSW with Edith. He probably put her into domestic service as soon as he could.
In 1908 Edith was married underage (17) to a man old enough to be her grandfather. I think she lied about her father being dead and being a “gentleman”. She needed permission to marry, so it was to her advantage to say her father was dead and mother was in QLD. She may not have known how to contact her father, as he was in Broken Hill, and she was in Sydney. As Edith had not seen her mother since she was 6, she may not have remember her mother’s surname, although she knew the first names were Ellen Sophia – or perhaps she was under the impression that Bowles was her mother’s married name.
I think the newspaper search for Jean Murless in 1910 was to do with the divorce proceedings, and then reports of the divorce in the newspapers may have sparked Edith’s quest to contact her father.
When you search the NSW Archives index for the name “Henry Murless”, the Smethurst divorce comes up. That is why I suggested, there may be more useful information in that file about Henry, than we get from the newspapers.
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;D
Admitted 5th Feby 1896
;D zoom is great on real puter.
JM
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Re the 1908 marriage and the NSW Guardian of Minors giving permission for the 17 year old to marry a 50 year old. That NSW official was basically breaching his then duty of care if he accepted the word of the minor re her parentage. He was required to carry out his own enquiries.
1899 Marriage Act ...
In the case of Minors.
9. .....
(a) of the written consent of the father of such party if within New South Wales or if not within New South Wales then of a guardian appointed by the father or
(b) if there be no such guardian in New South Wales then the written consent of the mother of such party if within New South Wales or
(c) where there is no such parent or guardian in New South Wales or he or she is incapable of duly consenting by reason of distance habitual intoxication or mental incapacity then the written consent of some justice of the peace appointed for that purpose. Such justice shall make inquiry on oath as to the facts and circumstances of the case before giving his consent. [/color][/b]
10. (1) For the purposes mentioned in the foregoing section the Judges of the Supreme Court shall appoint from time to time one or more justice or justices of the peace in every registrar's district who shall by virtue of such appointment give consent in such cases as
aforesaid.
....
11. When a marriage is celebrated upon the production of any such written consent as aforesaid a statement of the fact of such consent shall be indorsed on the certificate of such marriage and on the copy thereof signed respectively by the minister or registrar celebrating the same.
Edith was still being let down by the system !
JM
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Although Harry MURLESS had married Jean CAMERON in 1902, it looks to me that the relationship was inconsistently maintained. They were at separate addresses in Western Australia on the Electoral roll.
Harry was charged at a brothel in 1905
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/32747445/4132718
From about 1900 to 1903 Harry seems to have been involved in mining.
In 1903 he took up boxing and there are many references in the papers.
This early one has him as resident of Qld
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/211099875
After the 1911 Smethurst business, Jean was probably estranged from Harry.
She was happy to give evidence against him in this assault case in 1917. It is stated they do not live together
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5569876
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95451968
Sue
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Here is Edith's death notice in case you do not have it.
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Re the 1908 marriage and the NSW Guardian of Minors giving permission for the 17 year old to marry a 50 year old. That NSW official was basically breaching his then duty of care if he accepted the word of the minor re her parentage. He was required to carry out his own enquiries.
Oh wow, that is quite sad :((
Although Harry MURLESS had married Jean CAMERON in 1902, it looks to me that the relationship was inconsistently maintained. They were at separate addresses in Western Australia on the Electoral roll.
If that is all the same Henry/Harry it looks like he definitely got around.
Here is Edith's death notice in case you do not have it.
I didn't have this info, thankyou!
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I ended up getting the marriage certificate between Bertha and her husband and found no new info unfortunately.
EDIT: His job may be of interest? Does that say Mine Manager?
This is from 1913 - Murless and Shadwell
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Are there witnesses to the marriage?
Henry as "mine manager" is a significant item.
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These are the witnesses to the marriage in this image:
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Are there witnesses to the marriage?
Henry as "mine manager" is a significant item.
Yes, as we know, mining was one of the things Henry did ;)
A couple of news bits
Miner and publican in 1897. WA
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/259393586
Experienced miner. 1900
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/23835178
Sue
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Both witnesses from State children's Dept, would indicate (to me at least) that Bertha was still in State care up to her marriage.
So mother Ellen/Helen/ Nellie/Sophia was gone - she had died or had married or was just not able to take care of Bertha.
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Re the 1908 marriage and the NSW Guardian of Minors giving permission for the 17 year old to marry a 50 year old. That NSW official was basically breaching his then duty of care if he accepted the word of the minor re her parentage. He was required to carry out his own enquiries.
The William Ridley J.P the “Guardian of Minors”, who gave consent for Edith’s marriage, appears to be the same William Ridley, Deputy Registrar General who signed the marriage certificate.
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Is this death significant?
Ellen NORTH
16/05/1951
1951/B/32288
Mother Margaret Foster
Father Alfred BOWLES
Funeral Notice
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50112243
Death of a son
John Benjamin North
01/04/1967
1967/B/88062
Mother Ellen BOWLES
Father Alfred North
Sue
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Yes, there's phone conversations from my rellies not too many chaps by that name and as Dep Reg Gen. RIDLEY is not a name in my own tree. ::)
JM
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Sad to say I have not made much progress with Ellen Bowles – here are some observations however ….
BOWLES in Bathurst: there are a few convicts / ex-convicts with the surname BOWLES in the Bathurst area in the mid-late 1850s. It is possible our Ellen was a child of one of them. Bathurst library or history centre might be able to help with baptisms that were not registered. Assuming Bathurst is correct or course, and not a lie.
The QLD state Archives has indexed an Ellen Bowles and John Bowles arriving Maryborough QLD onboard “ S S QUETTA” in 1886. When I look at the passenger list to find more information, I cannot find see them on it. Can anyone see / find what I cannot?
1903 QLD Electoral rolls has:
- William Radcliff BOWLER (selector) living on Adavale Road (Charleville electorate)
- John BOWLES (labourer) living at Spreadborough’s Selection (Charleville electorate)
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The QLD state Archives has indexed an Ellen Bowles and John Bowles arriving Maryborough QLD onboard “ S S QUETTA” in 1886. When I look at the passenger list to find more information, I cannot find see them on it. Can anyone see / find what I cannot?
This was a family.
Remittance passengers
BOWLES
John aged 29. Lab. Presbyterian. Read and write. b.Surrey
Ellen aged23. Presbyterian. Read and write. b.Surrey
Emma aged 2 . Presbyterian. b.Surrey
John. infant. Presbyterian. b.Surrey
To land Brisbane
Sue
ADDING
What would show on Ellen's prison record?
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM282328
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ADDING
What would show on Ellen's prison record?
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM282328
I have requested a digital copy of the prison record. I will share info once I get a copy - hopefully soon!
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If we are lucky, it will at the very least confirm her place of birth.
Fingers crossed.
Sue
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I just want to say thankyou to everyone for helping me so far! I am really appreciative of it.