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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:06 GMT (UK)
Hello Everyone,

I expect most of you will have heard the phrase, "going for a Ruby Murray", ie Curry.  The 50's Northern Irish singer who had many hit records was born Ruby Florence Murray in Belfast in 1935. There is a family rumour she is related to the family via the McIlroy name but I have no proof of this.

Her father may have been Dan Murray and mother Winnie Connolly, but again no proof of this.

Does anybody know where to start researching as I can find nothing online.

Many thanks in anticipation
Sue   :)
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:15 GMT (UK)
Public tree on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/13035176/person/282300020551/facts
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:16 GMT (UK)
Reply removed in view of info above
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:21 GMT (UK)
Ooh, thank-you Shaun (and Carole), I'd missed that one.

I will read and absorb.

Many thanks
Sue
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:34 GMT (UK)
Well, this is interesting, the tree gives Ruby's paternal grandmother as Mary Jane McKinley (1870-1954), my own Great-grandmother was called Sarah Jane McKinley (1858-1918) both born in Belfast.  Is there any way of linking these two ladies? I haven't been able to get back any further for Sarah by the way.

Sue   :)
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 23 November 21 13:50 GMT (UK)
Does the tree show Mary Jane McKinley’s parentage & her siblings?

Presume you have Sarah’s father from her marriage cert so how does it compare?
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 14:03 GMT (UK)
No sorry, I don't have a marriage certificate and wouldn't know where to find one. She married Samuel Walker McIlroy in Belfast around 1888 (taken from 1901 census). I only know her maiden name from family.

And the tree doesn't show any family for Mary Jane McKinley either.

Sue

Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 23 November 21 15:40 GMT (UK)
In my Google searches, I found a piece that said her father was Scottish and her mother was Irish. This doesn't fit with the tree. 

I can't find the reference though.

Google and obituaries give information about her marriages and children.
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 23 November 21 15:48 GMT (UK)
She married Bernard Burgess in Blackpool in 1957 - 2 children still living.  (You can find them via Google)

Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 23 November 21 16:01 GMT (UK)
You say Sarah Jane McKinley was b 1858 but the 1901 entry shows her as 37 giving a birth year of approx 1863.  Living in Down in 1901 but born Antrim
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 23 November 21 16:02 GMT (UK)
Wikipedia also has a piece about Ruby Murray too:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Murray
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 16:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks Rena

Carole - I don't know where I got the 1858 birth year to be honest. I've been trolling the Irish databases but the information is a bit scant. I'll check up.

Thank-you
Sue
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 23 November 21 19:21 GMT (UK)
In 1911, Samuel McIlroy & children David & Maggie are in lodgings & Samuel is shown as married - 33yrs.  Both censuses are for Co Down

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002181591/

This is the 1901 entry

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000720970/
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 23 November 21 20:42 GMT (UK)
This looks to be the 1899 marriage in Belfast for John Murray and Mary Jane McKinley, showing as grandparents to Ruby on the a/try family tree link https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10368/5774571.pdf

Likely birth entry for Mary Jane McKinley in Ballymoney Antrim in 1870 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03326/2219106.pdf

Monica
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 23 November 21 21:21 GMT (UK)

...I don't know where I got the 1858 birth year to be honest. I've been trolling the Irish databases but the information is a bit scant. I'll check up.


From the burial index, Sarah Jane's birth year shows as c. 1858:

Sarah Jane McIlroy, age 60, 51 Lisburn Rd
Death Date 21 Nov 1918 and Burial Date 23 Nov 1918
Cemetery Section N2 82, City Cemetery, Belfast

Husband Samuel died on 4 Oct 1925 and buried a few dates later on the 7th with Sarah Jane. His age at death is given as 67.

Monica
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Tuesday 23 November 21 22:29 GMT (UK)
Yes Carole, that is my McIlroy family in 1901 and 1911, although I don't know where Sarah Jane McIlroy was in 1911.


And thanks also Monica for those entries, I knew the birth date of 1858 must have come from somewhere. I will pursue these new lines of research now I know Mary Janes father's name is Archibald McIlroy.

I very much appreciate all your efforts.

Sue   :)
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 23 November 21 22:49 GMT (UK)
Yes Carole, that is my McIlroy family in 1901 and 1911, although I don't know where Sarah Jane McIlroy was in 1911.
And thanks also Monica for those entries, I knew the birth date of 1858 must have come from somewhere. I will pursue these new lines of research now I know Mary Janes father's name is Archibald McIlroy.

Mary Jane's father was Archibald McKinley.

Possible entry for Sarah Jane McIlroy in 1911? lthough not all details match 1901 census-
Mc I;   S J; Lisburn Road; St. George's; Antrim; age 47; born Co Tyrone; Housekeeper; Church of Ireland; literacy-No; Married; married 28yers; 9 children, 6 living.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Lisburn_Road/155677/
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 23 November 21 23:13 GMT (UK)
Quote
She married Samuel Walker McIlroy in Belfast around 1888 (taken from 1901 census)
1901 census doesn't give number of years married.

Children I found, so far-
Elizabeth 26 Sept.1889
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02456/1912580.pdf  (54 Wall St.)
David 5 Aug.1891
Geraldine Oct.1893-18 Sept.1894
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02285/1857707.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05960/4694002.pdf  (3 Marion St.)
Samuel Walker (1897)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02109/1802968.pdf  (33 Ribble St.)

Added- burial record for Geraldine- parents & stillborn child (1895) in same plot-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6353.8341
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 23 November 21 23:19 GMT (UK)
In same plot as Samuel, wife Sarah, daughter Geraldine & stillborn child-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6393.17054
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02120/1806200.pdf (Robert James Black, parents Robert Black & Eliza McKinley)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05747/4622991.pdf

Marriage of Robert Black & Eliza McKinley gives her father as James McKinley, etc.-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10847/5960504.pdf
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: bagpuss on Wednesday 24 November 21 09:18 GMT (UK)
Quote
She married Samuel Walker McIlroy in Belfast around 1888 (taken from 1901 census)
1901 census doesn't give number of years married.

Sorry aghadowey, I meant the 1911 census.   ::)

Thank you for the Eliza Black/McKinley information. It definitely looks like this could be her sister. Therefore, her father is James, not Archibald, so no link there. Unless James and Archibald were brothers??? 

I have found a marriage in 1881 for Sarah Jane McKinley (with father's name James) to Thomas McMurray and on the 1911 census living with Samuel McIlroy's family is a Mary McMurray aged 28, so it looks like Sarah was married before.  I still can't find a marriage for Samuel Walker McIlroy and Sarah Jane McMurray/McKinley though, or a death for Thomas McMurray. 

Still more digging needed I suppose if I'm to solve this family mystery.

Thanks for your help, it is very kind of you.

Regards
Sue   :)
Title: Re: Singer Ruby Murray
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 24 November 21 11:56 GMT (UK)
Sarah Jane McKinley m.(1881) Thomas McMurray
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/11015/8027581.pdf
1.   Mary Jane McMurray (4 July 1882 at 39 Sandy Row)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02774/2018447.pdf
2.   Thomas McMurray (11 Oct.1884 at 5 McFarland’s Court)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02672/1984625.pdf

Haven't found a death for either Thomas McMurray or his son Thomas in Belfast but didn't have time to do thorough search.