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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: boscoe on Sunday 21 November 21 22:04 GMT (UK)
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I was wondering if there are any records available to get an understanding of what circumstances my g.g. parents lived in 1891. They lived with their daughter, Anne, and died in 1892 and 1893. That is, who owned the home? I doubt that they did. And, what was the home and area like? Etc.
The address was: #2 Rose Cottages, 3 Laburnum Road, Chertsey.
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Have you had a look at the road on Google street view?
The houses are quite small terraces, and much of Laburnum Road is facing the railway line, so it was probably a working class area in 1891.
If you follow the enumerator’s route in the 1891 census, you might be able to work out which end of Laburnum Road number 3 was. I’m not sure what #2 Rose Cottages would infer …. Can you give us their names so we can have a look for ourselves? I wonder if the #2 might refer to something else like number of schedule.
You can have a look at Number 3 on Google maps, but numbering could have changed since 1891, so it might be an idea to follow the enumerator to confirm.
Here is a side by side map which may give you a feel for the area:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.767086750545207&lat=51.38495&lon=-0.50442&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
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Joseph and Mary Ann Wickens were listed as being resident at that address in 1891 along with several other households having the same address.
I do wonder if some of them should have been entered as a different building ie No 1 Rose Cottages :-\. Looking at online maps there is a terrace of 6 with a 'place for a name' on the wall at first floor level which would tie in with houses 2 - 6 if listed correctly.
This is a property in the row I am referring to
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01r2i/
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There is only Joseph, Mary Ann and their daughter in the property, it is clearly indicated by the double // between the families, if the others were in the same house there would only be a single / between them. The Enumerator has failed to note the numbers of the other properties.
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Thank you for your information. I take it as a row house of 6 units, #2 being my ancestors.
What kind of a city was it in 1890? You mention working class, as I would have guessed, as opposed to Horsell, called posh, where they lived earlier and he worked, and I suspect was given shelter as part of his income (RG 11, 771, p. 8).
I know nothing of Ann other than she was born in 1836 in Aldermaston where Joseph worked. I wonder if she would shed any light on the subject of general knowledge.
(P. 8 keeps having a smiling face erase it)
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Chertsey today is a small town, local shops and food supermarkets. Horsell in the 1800s would have been a small village, today it merges into Woking and a large housing estate (Goldsworth Park). I would not call Horsell posh, though I did grow up there. :)
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Possible death for Ann Wickens born 1836 age 79
buried 15 Apr 1915 Chertsey St Peter Surrey
her abode was Chertsey Union Infirmary
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That has to be Ann. Her burial spot is with her parents. The unmarried part of her makes we wonder why, as if caused by occupation or divorce or just what. Finding where she lived earlier is the problem. These people never stayed very long in one place, unlike my mother's side which we traced back to the mid-1500s. Until the digital age, her family disappeared after 1860.
As for Horsell in the 1880s and generation afterward, posh is an English term I have read describing it. I don't have any ancestors who ever lived in an area like it that then, so I summarized from these descriptions when Joseph and Mary Ann lived there.
Then it contained those beginnings with its stately homes. The town abounds with parks, cricket and squash clubs, and golf courses.
If this description of the 1880-90s is wrong, please correct me. I suspect strongly that Joseph worked for one of those stately homes based on his previous manor house experiences.
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Millipede: what do you mean by " abode"? Is that where she died? And, do you think that it was a place for indigent people or those who could afford care?
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Millipede: what do you mean by " abode"? Is that where she died? And, do you think that it was a place for indigent people or those who could afford care?
Abode = address = where Ann was living or staying when she died.
A Google search will probably give you some information about infirmaries, who was admitted to them, and any costs involved.
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This rather lengthy 1912 report might be of interest:
https://www.weybridgesociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Health-Sanitary-Conditions-1912-report-WW.pdf
Whether Ann was a Workhouse inmate and admitted to the Infirmary when she became ill, or whether she was admitted directly into the Infirmary as she required medical care, I wouldn’t like to speculate.
See the map on this link which shows the Infirmary within the Workhouse grounds:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Chertsey/
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Re: Horsell …
I think having a close look at old maps gives you a reasonable insight into an area. A link to Horsell:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16.58696415624343&lat=51.32242&lon=-0.57096&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
My impression is that this looks like a rural village - you can see a brewery and farms etc where people would have been employed. Looking at the occupations of residents in the censuses can also give you some idea of how wealthy an area was, the size of their homes etc.
Added:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SRY/Horsell
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In 1881 Joseph was living at Littlewick, Horsell, he was an Under Gardener.
Nearby properties in 1881 were Parley House which was occupied by a Farm labourer and his family and on the pages following Josephs record it mentions Knaphill nursery.
On modern maps you need to be looking for Littlewick road, Joseph would have been living in the area between the Squires garden centre & the junction of Barrs Lane where the Knaphill nursery was situated. As you will be able to see the adjacent area is common land. Much of this area prior to development was owned by Nurserymen including Slococks, Waterers & Jackmans
There is lots information online about the area
https://wokinghistory.org/onewebmedia/140912.pdf
Have you tried looking at Surrey history centre website, you can search on house names / road names etc
eg
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01r2o/
You should also be able to find information on Chertsey there too
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Re: Horsell …
I think having a close look at old maps gives you a reasonable insight into an area. A link to Horsell:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16.58696415624343&lat=51.32242&lon=-0.57096&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
Little Wick is showing on that map and Knaphill Nursery, it is in the area of the 'H' in Horsell that is written in capitals
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Ann appears to have been admitted to the workhouse 30 Aug 1899 having been removed from Reading. She was recorded as a charwoman. She does not appear to have been discharged at any time. So she was there until her death in 1915.
This Ann appears to have been born in Aldermaston.
Nell
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That’s a good find Nell. :)
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How very interesting to read about this Surrey area. Indeed, it clearly is rural beginning a transformation, and unlike my brief Google search. The soil dictated it's use, as many places. Whatever 60 acres of "American plants" were amuses me. To me, it looks like Joseph was working for a gardening company, which fits into his past, well. Many thanks for your effort.
The comment that Joseph lived across from the railway track in Chertsey was heartwarming. His fourth son, my ancestor, was a guard on a London South West train on that track until his death from TB in 1890.
Which gets me to Ann. She was the first daughter of 3 in Joseph's family of 11 children. Thank you for giving me an idea of who she was. Once those kids left Aldermaston, mainly in the 1850s, they disappeared into daily history.
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The other end of Littlewick road leads to an area of Horsell Common where there are sandpits
https://www.horsellcommon.org.uk/sites/the-sandpit/
H.G. Wells lived in Maybury Road which like Laburnum Road faces on to the railway track.
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Quite an interesting story. Thanks. Makes me wonder if the sandy area was among the last spots in England to surface in the glacial retreat period.
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Little Nell: I interested to know if you can explain just a bit more what you mean by
"having been removed from Reading" in reply 14.
Do you think Ann was found somewhere unable to care for herself? And, why didn't she go to a Reading or nearby workhouse? [I understand the thinking before our age: if she came from "there," she's going back to "there," so we don't have to pay for her.] To me, "there" would be Aldermaston, but I suppose they used Chertsey as her last residence.
Life has changed so much, hasn't it.
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When people fell on hard times in the 19th century, it was up to the parish where they lived to help provide relief. But they had to have settlement in that parish. This is all to do with the Poor Laws (useful explainer on TNA site here: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/1834-poor-law/).
If people did not have legal settlement in the parish where they had fallen on hard times, they were removed (sent back) to their last place of legal settlement. It was not necessarily where they were born. I have an instance where a widow with a large family was threatened with removal from a town to a village where she had never set foot. Her husband had lived there as a child, but had moved away and married a long way from there. She took her place of settlement from her deceased husband. The family never got sent back - the parish officials argued about it so much and probably spent more in legal fees than if they had given her a helping hand!
Nell