RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: antonycorrigan on Wednesday 17 November 21 20:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi all.
Apologies if I’m not posting in the right place. I am new to the site.
I saw a generous offer somewhere that someone is willing to look for burial sites and take photographs of Dalbeth Cemetery headstones.
I am trying to find the burial locations of Patrick Cosgrove (1835-1914) and wife Mary Cosgrove (nee Fairly) 1937-1903.
I believe there may be a vault of some kind and maybe with others in too?
The following info applies to both: lair 671, section 15, division W.
I live in Manchester and so would like to come and visit if I can confirm it to be the correct place.
Would anyone be willing to see if they can locate this place and picture it if possible?
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Best wishes
Ant
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Have you contacted the cemetary to check if it's the correct location details & whether there is a headstone?
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Hi Carole.
I have emailed ‘info@rcag.org.uk’ as I believe the grounds are owned by the Archdiocese of Glasgow.
Hopefully they will be able to help.
In the meantime, it’s purely a guessing game.
Thanks
Ant
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Hi Ant
I've just been in Dalbeth for a family funeral and plan to go down again on Friday morning. I'll have a quick look at lair to see what I can find.
davie
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I’m sorry to hear of your bereavement.
Its very kind of you to offer and is much appreciated. I would very much doubt there’s any headstone to be honest. The family were very working class, probably living in poverty. Of the usual BillionGraves and FindAGrave sites there’s no images so I’m even more inclined to think a headstone doesn’t exist.
It would be good to know for sure though. Thank you so much!
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sounds similar to my family, very few headstones apart from two erected fairly recently. But, you never know. If you have emailed rcag then Sharon is normally very helpful and will get back to you. Seems she is working from home at the moment. Will let you know more tomorrow hopefully.
davie
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Yeah I sent an email across to them earlier today so will wait to hear back :)
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Hi Ant
as promised I had a look round Dalbeth today, and yes there is a headstone for Mary F Cosgrove, d 10 Oct 1903. It was exactly where you said. I have taken some photos, so if you send me your email in a PM I'll try and get them to you. I'll give you details of how to find that lair too.
davie
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That’s very sweet of you and I’m very grateful.
I’ve never known Mary to have the ‘F’ initial. Unless it’s to celebrate her Fairly family.
Either that, or I’ve got something wrong somewhere, although, my research doesn’t lead me to believe so.
My email address is: corrigana3@gmail.com.
I’m very grateful to you, Davie! Thanks a million!
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It has to be ‘my’ Mary that I’ve been searching for.
The death date is exact.
The fact that Patrick Cosgrove has been buried there too increases the odds somewhat!
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Thanks Davie.
I have received your email containing the pics. Really grateful to you for taking the time to take them for me.
To be honest though, it’s left me more confused and doubting whether this is the Mary Cosgrove I am looking for.
Although my Mary Cosgrove died 10 October, she died in 1903 and this does tally with the interment register I got for St Peter’s, Dalbeth.
I was unsure as to whether the gravestone gives the right death year of 1903 as in the picture appears to maybe be 1962?
Additionally, I have also not come across anything else in terms if document in which she has the F middle initial. But her maiden name was Fairly.
Furthermore, my Mary Cosgrove’s death certificate states that she died in 1903 aged 65. However, the age of Mary on the headstone is 70.
However, the same interment register lists a Patrick Cosgrove as being in the same plot (and this was the name of her husband). He died in 1914 which also correlated with the same interment records and with the same plot.
Mary died at ‘1 Pretoria Place, Cambuslang’, whilst her husband died at St Joseph’s Garngadhill a decade later but whose last known address is listed as ‘5 Pretoria Street, Cambuslang’ (presumably the same place)
On Scotlands people there’s a listing for a Mary Cosgrove, Cambuslang with the maiden name Quinn. Now, according to ancestry, her mother was a Mary Quinn of Ireland and father Philip Fairley. But I’ve not been able to find anything relating to these two.
So there are some aspects that make me believe it must be her but others where I am not so sure…
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Hi Ant
I see what you mean. The date is definately 1903. The age could be wrong as it could depend on who registered the death. I have some certs which are 5 or 6 years out because the person registering didn't know all the correct details as they weren't close family as such.
Also with Anc**** I always take those records with some salt. I could show you lots of records which are way out, but people on Anc*** swear they are right. When you ask for hard proof ie paper record they don't have any. Treat ALL you find on Anc*** with some caution.
Have you tried https://www.irishgenealogy.ie for records of Fairley/Quinn. On ScotlandsPeople 1901 census there is one Mary Cosgrove, 61, Cambuslang, living with James, 61, James,39 and Patrick, 26, according to the index. I dont have any credits to check full details. Do these names ring bells?
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It’s one of those scenarios where you start doubting whether the research you’ve done so far is correct. And then if not, what is that missing link I’ve not been able to identify.
But I’ve gone over and over it with a fine tooth comb and it keeps leading me back to the same place, so it has to be them.
I have looked at the Irish site you linked. But as it’s a subscription only site, I’ll need to wait for a while as I don’t want to pay for different ones at the same time. Ancestry is an expensive business!
My research usually comes to a standstill with Mary and Patrick though once it goes into Irish territory.
I am led to believe that Mary’s husband Patrick’s father was a gentleman called Peter Cosgrove (various spellings of Peter - Petrus, Petri for example). He supposedly married an Ann/Anne/Anna Ward.
I have found a possible marriage record - January 11, 1835 Templemichael, County Longford, Ireland.
If the death records I have located for both Ann and Peter are correct (1861 and 1878 respectively), Ann died at 40 whilst Peter was around 70. Peter died at Lanark hospital but does not include a NOK or wife on the certificate. I can only assume his life spiralled downwards after Ann’s death. (If I have the right people at all!)
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I have looked at the Irish site you linked. But as it’s a subscription only site
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ is completely free of charge.
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Ah, thank you.
Not sure what site I was thinking of then. It has been a pay per search one.
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Not sure what site I was thinking of then. It has been a pay per search one.
Roots Ireland https://www.rootsireland.ie/ is maybe the one you were thinking of? I know you have to pay for it but don't know whether it's subscription or pay-per-view.
Scotland's People used to be pay-per-search but searching is now free and it's only pay-per-view.
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Sharon came back to me confirming the following:
Section 15 Lair Number 671
The owner of the lair is James Cosgrove.
Interred in this lair is:-
12th October 1903 – Mary Cosgrove – mother of the lair owner
23rd July 1914 – Patrick Cosgrove – father of the lair owner
20th April 1929 – John Cosgrove – Brother of the lair owner
28th May 1934 – James Cosgrove – Owner
15th June 1937 – James Cosgrove – Son of the lair owner
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Thought she would. Does that tie in with your research then. Are those names you expected to see?
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Everything I’ve uncovered so far does lead me to believe it’s my ancestors but there’s still a niggling doubt. Ancestry is essentially detective work, isn’t it? So you can’t help but think there’s something blindingly obvious that you’ve missed!
In my Ancestry tree, records suggest that Mary and Patrick Cosgrove (who were my 3x maternal great grandparents) had 8 children - James, John, Peter, Thomas, Mary, Ann, Patrick and Margaret.
To see that two sons (James and John) share the St Peter’s, Dalbeth burial plot, therefore, seems plausible. James’ son, also called James shares the plot so there’s 5 of them in total buried there.
I’ve hired a professional genealogist who specialises in Scottish ancestry to assist me. Hopefully, she can help me to confirm things.
We’re at the earliest stages at the moment though & looking at my maternal great grandfather, William Cosgrove (b. 3/10/1912, d. 6/11/1970). He was the grandson of Mary and Patrick. We’ll work backwards from there. Although I’m very confident with my research here.
William’s birth and marriage certificate list his parents as Patrick and Jeanie Cosgrove (nee McAllister but formerly Bryson).
I later found the marriage certificate for Patrick and Jeanie dated 15 November 1921. This confirmed that the parents of Patrick were Patrick (to add to the confusion) and Mary Cosgrove (nee Fairley) and from this, I was able to locate Patrick’s birth certificate which also confirms his parents were Patrick and Mary Cosgrove (nee Fairly) who married 23 April 1858, Lanark.
This leads me here with GGG grandfather, Patrick Cosgrove. I haven’t been able to find a record of his birth as he was born in Ireland around 1835.
The 1891 census has Patrick and his wife Mary living with 6 of their children at 4 Academy Street, Bathgate. I can’t find them on the 1901 census.
On Patrick’s death certificate (which has his wife as Mary Fairley) he died in Pretoria Street, Cambuslang 20 July 1914. Mary died at the same place in 1903. The burial records form St Peter’s, Dalbeth are within 2 days of the deaths of both Patrick and Mary.
I have to believe this is them. What more could there be to confirm this?
On Patrick’s marriage certificate, his parents were listed as Peter Cosgrove and Anna Ward. I found a marriage record for them (I think) - 11 January 1835, Templemichael, County Longford, Ireland. As the census back in Scotland appears to have Patrick’s year of birth as 1835 in Ireland, it seems possible this is true.
Sorry for the ramblings, I think I’m perhaps trying to convince myself more than anything else…
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Following up from Davie's (Ayrgenes) kindness I to was in Dalbeth yesterday and took a couple of pictures for you noticing the missing top of the headstone due to health and safety the keepers are now required to topple any lose headstones and it is possible they may have retained the top of your ancestors it could be worth checking with staff if you visit as sometimes these are retained for possible familes to restore good luck. Garngad
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Thank you so much for these and apologies for the delay. I thought I’d already sent my thanks. I do really appreciate you taking the time to get these to me!
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No thanks required I was there anyways and Davie had already provided you with his I just thought that any readers past or future would like to know as we all seem to take interest in other posts good luck.