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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Celticcrafter on Wednesday 17 November 21 14:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Wednesday 17 November 21 14:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone,  It has been a while delighted to see rootschat is still going strong.  I have a Scottish marriage certificate that I would like some help with.
Can anyone read the information for the Bride and Groom and their parents on record number 197 Hamill.
Thanks C
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: RJ_Paton on Wednesday 17 November 21 14:45 GMT (UK)
Groom Felix Hamill age 24 Warehouse Porter, home address 130 Garngad Hill, Glasgow
Bride Annie Geggan age 21, Cotton Powerloom Weaver, 39 William Street Glasgow

Grooms parents Felix Hammill Iron Puddler , deceased & Bridget Hammill (maiden Surname Canning)
Brides Parents James Geggan , Railway Engine ? (driver?) deceased & Alice geggan (Maiden Surname Duffy)

Added: If you obtained this from Scotlands People you should report that the image is illegible and they normally rescan it and send you an updated copy.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: bikermickau on Wednesday 17 November 21 14:53 GMT (UK)
I don't know if the situation has changed since the 15th Oct, I've had this message from Scotland People each time I've reported that the image is illegible.
"Thank you for contacting ScotlandsPeople.

Due to the Covid-19 virus our services are restricted at this time and I’m afraid we will not be able to rescan this image at present. Accordingly, I’m refunding six credits to your ScotlandsPeople account.

I’m sorry I’m unable to help you further on this occasion, but do please keep a note of this and any further legibility queries that you have so in future we will be able to look into them on your behalf
."


Added: If you obtained this from Scotlands People you should report that the image is illegible and they normally rescan it and send you an updated copy.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Wednesday 17 November 21 16:25 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much Falkyrn  this is a great help.  I did get the records from Scottish people.  This was the worst one.  I'll certainly let them know about any other ones that I come across.
Thank you  bikermickau for your information.  I will let them know about this one and see what happens.  Will update with the result.
Regards, CC
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 17 November 21 21:00 GMT (UK)
CC, I think Falkryn's suggestions look sound.

This looks to be Annie's birth details over in Ireland www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3W-DB5X Likely this surname will be a nightmare on spelling variations. I searched for g*g*n!

Is this Felix and Annie after their marriage in 1891:

Felix Hamill 29 carter b. Glasgow
Annie Hamill 26 b. Ireland
Alice Hamill 4 b. Glasgow
James Hamill 11 months

Address: 39 Villiers St, Glasgow/ Dennistoun

Monica
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 17 November 21 21:16 GMT (UK)
Confirmation of Felix's parents from his birth details on the FS index www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQH-GX8

His family in 1871:

Felix Hamill 45 puddler b. Ireland
Bridget Hamill 35 b. Ireland
Margt Ann Hamill 15 b. Ireland
Edward Hamill 12
Felix Hamill 16 (should read 10/11)
Mary Hamill 7
Eliza Hamill 5
Edward Cumming 77 Lodger b. Ireland

Address: 6 Cobden St, Springburn Lanarkshire

The birth certs for the Hamill children from the 1860s should include date and place of parents' marriage.

Monica
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Wednesday 17 November 21 21:32 GMT (UK)
Confirmation of Felix's parents from his birth details on the FS index www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQH-GX8

His family in 1871:

Felix Hamill 45 puddler b. Ireland
Bridget Hamill 35 b. Ireland
Margt Ann Hamill 15 b. Ireland
Edward Hamill 12
Felix Hamill 16 (should read 10/11)
Mary Hamill 7
Eliza Hamill 5
Edward Cumming 77 Lodger b. Ireland

Address: 6 Cobden St, Springburn Lanarkshire

The birth certs for the Hamill children from the 1860s should include date and place of parents' marriage.

Monica
Thank you MonicaL you are correct about the surname it is a nightmare.  I have three distinct Spellings so far.  I started off with Geggan and then I found a record with Geoghegan and I happen to have an Aunt with that name so I guessed it had been misspelt so I kept going and then I found one with Geoghan.  Without a doubt all the same family.

Sometimes I think my computer will just refuse to work one day.  The screen will say "I am done researching for the day get back to me tomorrow.   :) :) :).
Regards, Caroline

That's interesting Bridgets maiden name is Canning.  I couldn't find anything under that name maybe because its Cumming.  I'll take a look.  Thanks again. CC

Had a quick look Bridgets name is Canning.   :-\
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 17 November 21 21:41 GMT (UK)
Not wanting to add to the mix of surnames... ::)...but, I did see this RC baptism which I thought might be for daughter Margaret Ann Hamill:

Margaret Anne Hamill
Baptism Age: 0
Birth Date: 1854
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1854
Baptism Place: Antrim, St Patrick's, Belfast city, Ireland
Diocese: Down and Connor
Father: Felix Hamill
Mother: Bridget Connor

The Scottish birth regs do have Bridget as Canning it seems (from the Family Search Index).

Monica
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 18 November 21 07:21 GMT (UK)

This looks to be Annie's birth details over in Ireland www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3W-DB5X Likely this surname will be a nightmare on spelling variations. I searched for g*g*n!


Here's the birth record for Anne Geoghegan in 1864-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03608/2331323.pdf

Born at Laragh in Ballibay (sic) civil parish.   MMN Duffy
https://www.townlands.ie/monaghan/cremorne/ballybay/ballybay-rural/laragh/


KG

Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Millmoor on Thursday 18 November 21 07:52 GMT (UK)
I cannot see the corresponding marriage in the Catholic records on SP. However there is a clearly written copy on FindMyPast from the Scottish Catholic Archives which is worth looking at. The name is clearly written as Canning although they seem to have the parents' surname and mother's maiden name the wrong way round!

William
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Thursday 18 November 21 16:37 GMT (UK)
Not wanting to add to the mix of surnames... ::)...but, I did see this RC baptism which I thought might be for daughter Margaret Ann Hamill:

Margaret Anne Hamill
Baptism Age: 0
Birth Date: 1854
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1854
Baptism Place: Antrim, St Patrick's, Belfast city, Ireland
Diocese: Down and Connor
Father: Felix Hamill
Mother: Bridget Connor

The Scottish birth regs do have Bridget as Canning it seems (from the Family Search Index).

Monica

This could be her as her parents married in Belfast.  I have one sibling before her Frances (Fanny) born in 1853 however, I don't have a record for her.
I have records for:
Edward, Mary, Elizabeth, Francis all born in Springburn,Lanark,Scotland.
So if she was 1st born she could have been born in Belfast and even Fanny could have been born there.  Then they moved to Scotland.  OK Bingo I just checked the 1861 Scottish Census and it does say that both the girls were born in Ireland and the other 4 say scotland. 
So thank you very much for that info.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Thursday 18 November 21 16:38 GMT (UK)
I cannot see the corresponding marriage in the Catholic records on SP. However there is a clearly written copy on FindMyPast from the Scottish Catholic Archives which is worth looking at. The name is clearly written as Canning although they seem to have the parents' surname and mother's maiden name the wrong way round!

William
Will check this thank you.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Thursday 18 November 21 16:51 GMT (UK)
I cannot see the corresponding marriage in the Catholic records on SP. However there is a clearly written copy on FindMyPast from the Scottish Catholic Archives which is worth looking at. The name is clearly written as Canning although they seem to have the parents' surname and mother's maiden name the wrong way round!

William

 :) Yes this is a very confusing Record. 
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Friday 19 November 21 01:51 GMT (UK)
I cannot see the corresponding marriage in the Catholic records on SP. However there is a clearly written copy on FindMyPast from the Scottish Catholic Archives which is worth looking at. The name is clearly written as Canning although they seem to have the parents' surname and mother's maiden name the wrong way round!

William
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Millmoor on Friday 19 November 21 07:30 GMT (UK)
I suspect that the name confusion on the Catholic record I quoted is simply an error.

You might also find it of interest to look at the baptism records which are available on FindMyPast. The surname is variously written as Hamel, Hamil, Hammell or Hammill. On the record for Felix Bridget's maiden surname is given as Cannon! Baptisms for Francis in 1867 and 1869 indicate a death in infancy. ( In fact there appear to be burial records for both). Sponsors' names might be of use in your search. Presumably the sponsors Francis and Margaret Canning are relatives.

William

Added. As well as Felix and Francis there are baptisms for Mary in 1863 and Eliza in 1865. There also seems to be a baptism for an earlier Mary in 1856, the surname being transcribed as Hammet. Edward's surname is transcribed as Hannah on his baptism record - the handwriting on that one is not good!
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Sandblown on Friday 19 November 21 11:19 GMT (UK)
My Wife's Paternal Family are Cannings, down to Her G.Grandfather. Before that, the surname spelling for Her G.G.Grandfather, and down, was Cannon, all very confusing !

The Family originated from Balbriggan, County Dublin.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Friday 19 November 21 18:40 GMT (UK)
I suspect that the name confusion on the Catholic record I quoted is simply an error.

You might also find it of interest to look at the baptism records which are available on FindMyPast. The surname is variously written as Hamel, Hamil, Hammell or Hammill. On the record for Felix Bridget's maiden surname is given as Cannon! Baptisms for Francis in 1867 and 1869 indicate a death in infancy. ( In fact there appear to be burial records for both). Sponsors' names might be of use in your search. Presumably the sponsors Francis and Margaret Canning are relatives.
Thank you I am taking a look at these records.


William

Added. As well as Felix and Francis there are baptisms for Mary in 1863 and Eliza in 1865. There also seems to be a baptism for an earlier Mary in 1856, the surname being transcribed as Hammet. Edward's surname is transcribed as Hannah on his baptism record - the handwriting on that one is not good.

I did find another record for John Reid.  I cannot read the mothers maiden name.

Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Friday 19 November 21 18:43 GMT (UK)
I may have attached this twice  ::)
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Millmoor on Friday 19 November 21 18:50 GMT (UK)
Possibly mother's maiden name Gray?

William
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Friday 19 November 21 20:06 GMT (UK)
Possibly mother's maiden name Gray?

William

Awesome will check that out.  I have looked at the other records as the address on the records are the same as the census records  the error has to be like you say in the transcription.  I also found Fanny Hamill  :)  I now have all the children.  I haven't been doing ancestry for a couple of years and really just recently started up again.  I am glad I remembered rootschat.  I think I am good until I get on here and you guys are always amazing.   find my past has changed quite a bit so I am learning my way around it again.   :) 
Caroline
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 19 November 21 20:14 GMT (UK)
Caroline, what happened to Bridget Canning Hamill?

Monica

Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Friday 19 November 21 20:56 GMT (UK)
Possibly mother's maiden name Gray?

William

Awesome will check that out.  I have looked at the other records as the address on the records are the same as the census records  the error has to be like you say in the transcription.  I also found Fanny Hamill  :)  I now have all the children.  I haven't been doing ancestry for a couple of years and really just recently started up again.  I am glad I remembered rootschat.  I think I am good until I get on here and you guys are always amazing.   find my past has changed quite a bit so I am learning my way around it again.   :) 
Caroline

Gray is correct.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Friday 19 November 21 21:28 GMT (UK)
Caroline, what happened to Bridget Canning Hamill?

Monica

I had a whole email typed and lost it so I have to start over.
So I now have Felix and Bridget and all the children.  I think that Bridget is Canning and maybe on the record with Conner it was transcribed as the Diocese (Conner) instead of Canning. I am now working on the record of Margaret Anne that you found.  She married a John Reid.  She moved to the States so lots of records for them in the US.

The last names are enough to make you crazy and this is my first foray into Scotland and Northern Ireland.  I am from Dublin and the bulk of my family are from Dublin.  My mom who just passed away in 2019 (91 years young) was born in number 1 High Street Dublin can't get much more Dublin than that.  The Hamill  tree I am doing now is for my friend. 
I just found on my husband's tree that his 8th or 9th grandfather was one of the 104 on the Mayflower.  Very exciting.  However, he is still waiting for me to find a pirate and some buried treasure.  :) :) :)
Caroline
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Millmoor on Saturday 20 November 21 08:44 GMT (UK)
I can see John and Margaret Reid in the 1881 Scotland census but not thereafter in Scotland.. I note that John Reid's place of birth is given as Ireland. I have to say that I think the Kirkintilloch John Reid is a different person. I would suggest that it would be worth downloading the actual marriage cert from Scotland's People to ensure you have the correct John. ( Some of the Ancestry trees for this couple seem rather muddled).

I had a search for their son Felix Reid on Familysearch in Pensylvania . A number of records come up, including census records . These indicate an immigration year of 1882. In 1900 the surname has been transcribed as Reed not Reid.

Hope this helps.

William
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Saturday 20 November 21 19:22 GMT (UK)
I can see John and Margaret Reid in the 1881 Scotland census but not thereafter in Scotland.. I note that John Reid's place of birth is given as Ireland. I have to say that I think the Kirkintilloch John Reid is a different person. I would suggest that it would be worth downloading the actual marriage cert from Scotland's People to ensure you have the correct John. ( Some of the Ancestry trees for this couple seem rather muddled).



Hope this helps.

William
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Millmoor on Sunday 21 November 21 12:42 GMT (UK)
As far as I can see John Reid and Margaret Hammill were actually married in Glasgow on the 1st January 1877. Have a look at the RC marriage for them  in St Mungo's Chapel on FindMyPast. The corresponding marriage cert is indexed in St Rollox RD in Glasgow in 1877 on Scotland's People.

I would be wary of the Ancestry Trees for this family. Frankly they seem to contain lots of errors. I would suggest that after emigration your Reids lived in Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania, not in New Jersey. I think Cecilia and Timothy were the children of a totally different John and Margaret.

Here are a couple of records from Familysearch  :

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M37L-55D

This is the family in Philadelphia in 1900. The surname is showing as Reed ( I have lots of Reids in my own tree and have this error too). Felix's RC marriage record which clearly names his parents as John Reid and Margaret Ann Hammill can be viewed on FindMyPast.

This is son Edward's death cert. in 1909. Again parents are named along with place of birth.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65B9-9PQ?i=501&cc=1320976&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJ6Q8-ZL6.

Note that the residence showing on the death cert. is Richmond Street, the same as on the 1900 census.

William
Title: Re: Can anyone read this record
Post by: Celticcrafter on Sunday 21 November 21 18:34 GMT (UK)
As far as I can see John Reid and Margaret Hammill were actually married in Glasgow on the 1st January 1877. Have a look at the RC marriage for them  in St Mungo's Chapel on FindMyPast. The corresponding marriage cert is indexed in St Rollox RD in Glasgow in 1877 on Scotland's People.

I would be wary of the Ancestry Trees for this family. Frankly they seem to contain lots of errors. I would suggest that after emigration your Reids lived in Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania, not in New Jersey. I think Cecilia and Timothy were the children of a totally different John and Margaret.

Here are a couple of records from Familysearch  :

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M37L-55D

This is the family in Philadelphia in 1900. The surname is showing as Reed ( I have lots of Reids in my own tree and have this error too). Felix's RC marriage record which clearly names his parents as John Reid and Margaret Ann Hammill can be viewed on FindMyPast.

This is son Edward's death cert. in 1909. Again parents are named along with place of birth.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65B9-9PQ?i=501&cc=1320976&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJ6Q8-ZL6.

Note that the residence showing on the death cert. is Richmond Street, the same as on the 1900 census.

Millmoor
Thank you for all this information. You are correct on all points.
 
I actually have their marriage in Scotland in 1877 I had mixed up Margaret's mom and dad with John and Margaret.  I also later had noticed the two very similar families on two different census.  so I have been working on correcting that information.  I don't work very fast  :) :) :) .

You are absolutely right about the tress on Ancestry they are a mess.  A lot of people just add stuff to their trees to bulk them out. I like to source my information that's why it takes me so long.  I do make mistakes and sometimes it takes me a while to see them. 

I do appreciate your help pointing out something I may have missed.  I need to do better when answering posts and not mix up my information  :)

Caroline