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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Surrey => England => Surrey Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lizzieliza on Sunday 14 November 21 19:51 GMT (UK)
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Could really use some help please if possible. Looking for info on my grand aunt born in Southwark Surrey 1895. I have her on the 1911 census age 15 working as a bookbinder and living with the Barnett family in Brunswick Street SE London. Wondering what happened to her? Cannot find a marriage cert. Total brick wall. Could be someone with a bit more experience than myself might happen across something?
Many thanks in advance.
Liz
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Very common name unfortunately. You may have to wait for the release of the 1921. 3 marriages in Surrey for that name on freebmd up to 1918.
Did she have any middle name?
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No middle name I'm afraid. I will check out the marriages. Thank you
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Who were her parents?
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George Digby Wilson (The middle name only appears on his birth & marriage certs). He died when Elizabeth was very young. Mother was Mary Ann Dutton. Cannot find any trace of her on 1911 census.
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Maybe mum married again and is under a new surname - have you checked possible marriages for her?
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25.11.1895
Her birth date could help you search the 1939 register if she was still around then.
You could try the possible marriage surnames with that birth date to rule them in or out.
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Where is she/they in 1901?
I can see school records with that date of birth.
Any birth registration? Baptism?
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Got a baptism of an Elizabeth Wilson in Westminster
30 Oct 1892, St Michael, Burleigh Street
Born 18 April 1892
Parents George Digby and Mary
Father Wireworker
But
Baptism, 22 May 1892, St Andrew, Earlsfield, Wandsworth
Frances Fanny
born 19 April 1892
Parents George Dichney? and Mary
Father Wire Worker
WILSON, FRANCES
Mother's Maiden Surname: DUTTON
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 732
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That's confusing isn't it but there is
Frances Fanny Wilson 21
marriage in Southwark 2 Jun 1912
father George dec'd cycle maker
groom William Filkins 21
So when did George Digby Wilson die?
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Yes, Millie, Frances Wilson and Elizabeth Wilson admitted to Orange Street School, Southwark, on the same day, 23 January 1899.
Frances born 18 April 1892
Elizabeth born 25 Nov 1895
Parent George, Wireworker
Address 101 Union Street.
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Thank you all so much for your input. Yes, all the info you have listed is correct. Let me try and answer some of the questions. On the school information George Wilson is down as the father in 1899 but in 1902 Mary is down as the parent, so I assume George had died. In 1912 my nan (Elizabeth's sister married and it says father deceased. I have ordered various certs on the off chance of finding George's death death record all to no avail. I have found them on the 1891 census in Wandsworth but they are listed with the surname Hart. It was suggested that the enumerator made an error since the family listed beforehand had a similar name. The family have not been found on the 1901 census. Hope all this helps?
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Maybe mum married again and is under a new surname - have you checked possible marriages for her?
I have ordered several marriage certs over the years for Mary Ann but so far none have been correct
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25.11.1895
Her birth date could help you search the 1939 register if she was still around then.
You could try the possible marriage surnames with that birth date to rule them in or out.
I will definitely try that tomorrow. Didn't realise you could search with birth date alone. Thank you.
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Got a baptism of an Elizabeth Wilson in Westminster
30 Oct 1892, St Michael, Burleigh Street
Born 18 April 1892
Parents George Digby and Mary
Father Wireworker
But
Baptism, 22 May 1892, St Andrew, Earlsfield, Wandsworth
Frances Fanny
born 19 April 1892
Parents George Dichney? and Mary
Father Wire Worker
WILSON, FRANCES
Mother's Maiden Surname: DUTTON
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 732
Frances Fanny was my grandmother, her baptism record is correct as she was born in Wandsworth. The baptism record you found for Elizabeth is interesting because all the details are correct except the year? Also, seems odd that she would have been baptised in Westminster when they were living in Southwark? Really doesn't make sense. Maybe they put my gran Frances's year of birth down as Elizabeth's by mistake?
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That's confusing isn't it but there is
Frances Fanny Wilson 21
marriage in Southwark 2 Jun 1912
father George dec'd cycle maker
groom William Filkins 21
So when did George Digby Wilson die?
He's down as the parent on one sch record but in 1902 it's Mary's name that's listed. Around that time the girls also changed schools. On my gran's marriage cert (Frances) in 1912 her father is down as deceased. I have yet to find a record confirming that. The only other explanation can be that he upped and left?
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Have yuo found them on 1891 and 1901 - I've failed so far. Also not found a birth reg for Elizabeth.
Two other children - Mary Ann b 1889 and George Digby b 1890. WHat happened to them?
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Hi
Yes, three of them in 1891 in Wandsworth as Hart (Harl on ancestry)
The address Frances gives on her marriage is 43 Brunswick Street, which is where Elizabeth Wilson was lodging with the Barnetts in 1911.
Frances Filkins and her husband are at 29 Tiverton Street, Rockingham Street, Southwark, after the war. In 1929 there is a Mary Wilson listed with them.
But in 1930 they have moved to 49 Coxson Place, Bermondsey (Horselydown area)
Mary Wilson not listed with them in 1930, but is again in 1931 and 1932. Is that Frances's mother?
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George Hart the Wire Worker in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QSXH-BMM
There is a Mary Wilson death in St Olave in March 1933, age 62. Too young?
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Mary Ann Dutton was 18 when she married George Digby Wilson, 2 April 1888, Lambeth.
Father Joseph Dutton, Carpenter.
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Have yuo found them on 1891 and 1901 - I've failed so far. Also not found a birth reg for Elizabeth.
Two other children - Mary Ann b 1889 and George Digby b 1890. WHat happened to them?
Found no birth for Elizabeth. They were on 1891 census under name of Hart. Didn't find them 1901. I believe child Mary died during birth year. No info on George, no school listed.
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Hi
Yes, three of them in 1891 in Wandsworth as Hart (Harl on ancestry)
The address Frances gives on her marriage is 43 Brunswick Street, which is where Elizabeth Wilson was lodging with the Barnetts in 1911.
Frances Filkins and her husband are at 29 Tiverton Street, Rockingham Street, Southwark, after the war. In 1929 there is a Mary Wilson listed with them.
But in 1930 they have moved to 49 Coxson Place, Bermondsey (Horselydown area)
Mary Wilson not listed with them in 1930, but is again in 1931 and 1932. Is that Frances's mother?
Wow! I can only imagine that is the mother. As I found a death entry for the child Mary which fits. Where did you find the info please?
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They are on the electoral registers on ancestry (London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965)
With William Frederick and Frances Filkins still at 49 Coxson Place in 1933, but no Mary Wilson
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That's confusing isn't it but there is
Frances Fanny Wilson 21
marriage in Southwark 2 Jun 1912
father George dec'd cycle maker
groom William Filkins 21
So when did George Digby Wilson die?
As far as I can tell between 1898 & 1902
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They are on the electoral registers on ancestry (London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965)
With William Frederick and Frances Filkins still at 49 Coxson Place in 1933, but no Mary Wilson
Thank you
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Got a baptism of an Elizabeth Wilson in Westminster
30 Oct 1892, St Michael, Burleigh Street
Born 18 April 1892
Parents George Digby and Mary
Father Wireworker
But
Baptism, 22 May 1892, St Andrew, Earlsfield, Wandsworth
Frances Fanny
Re the baptism you kindly found for Elizabeth, is it possible to give me a link to it please? I have been searching for it but still can't find it. Many thanks for your help. Liz
born 19 April 1892
Parents George Dichney? and Mary
Father Wire Worker
WILSON, FRANCES
Mother's Maiden Surname: DUTTON
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 732
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Hi
That's on ancestry as well, in Westminster, London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1919.
It's definitely a baptism in 1892, on 30 October. So it was after the birth registration of Frances, which itself must have been late if she was born 19 April.
But it must be the same child being baptized again? With the date of birth given being one day different.
The address on the Westminster baptism is 2 Lumley Court WC.
John
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Frances Fanny was with her uncle and aunt James & Frances Rowden in 1911 - she's also a bookfolder. Looks like she's gone to her father's side, as the aunt's maiden name was Wilson. Interestingly the aunt say she was born in 1871 in France on both 1901 and 1911.
I can't find a marriage for James Rowden and Frances Wilson - they claim it should be around 1893. Nor can I find Frances before 1901
Ancestry hints at a marriage for Frances Wilson in the right sort of area of London, but to a different man. That woman's father is called Alfred
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Thank you for that. The more I think about the mix up with the dates the stranger it seems with this branch of the family. My gran Frances was born 19th April and baptised in May, yet her birth certificate has her born in July of that year! She herself queried this in later life but was assured that was her birth cert. All very odd.
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Frances Fanny was with her uncle and aunt James & Frances Rowden in 1911 - she's also a bookfolder. Looks like she's gone to her father's side, as the aunt's maiden name was Wilson. Interestingly the aunt say she was born in 1871 in France on both 1901 and 1911.
I can't find a marriage for James Rowden and Frances Wilson - they claim it should be around 1893. Nor can I find Frances before 1901
Ancestry hints at a marriage for Frances Wilson in the right sort of area of London, but to a different man. That woman's father is called Alfred
Frances did live with her aunt for a while. Her aunt wasn't born in France. That was a lie for whatever reason. Frances married William Frederick Filkins in 1912
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George Hart the Wire Worker in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QSXH-BMM
There is a Mary Wilson death in St Olave in March 1933, age 62. Too young?
Happy to say I followed up on your finding re possible death of Mary Wilson. The cert just arrived and is correct! Finally know what happened to my great grandmother. Thank you jonw65
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Hi
That's very good news, thank you for telling us.
I wonder if Mary will show up in the 1921 census, which is released next year. And which will also give you another chance of tracking down Elizabeth, married or otherwise. And could Mary have lived with her for a spell before she turned up with Frances?
John
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Fingers crossed for the 1921 census! Meanwhile I have found 3 possible marriages for an Elizabeth, so a trip to the records office is on the cards. Big thanks to everyone for their help. Very much appreciated
Liz