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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Benzol on Saturday 13 November 21 20:39 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace my nephew's grandfather's army record. Can anybody help please?
He joined the RE as a sapper c.1914 and was allocated a number "22942"
He died still in service c 1937 as "RSM Arthur John KEANE" number unknown.
Apparently the army gave all serving members new numbers c. 1922
Can the new number be determined from the old, Please?
Thanks Benzol
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He died still in service c 1937 as "RSM Arthur John KEANE" number unknown
Because he served after 1920 his service records will still be with the MoD. Your nephew can apply for them but at the moment there is a wait of at least 18 months. Hopefully this will get shorter as work practices return to "normal."
This is where you can download the application forms. Your nephew will need to pay 30 pounds, provide Arthur John Keane's date of birth and a copy of his death certificate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
You will not need his service number to apply for the records.
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I don't think you need the death certificate if he died in service?
I applied several years ago in similar circumstances; no death cert was required.
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I don't think you need the death certificate if he died in service?
I applied several years ago in similar circumstances; no death cert was required.
Thanks for pointing that out. :) I overlooked the reference to his death in service. Duh.
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Thank you for the information, I will forward it to my nephew.
Benzol
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According to his obituary he was with the 49th (West Riding) Divisional Signals when he died, which was a territorial unit.
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Jomot
Thanks for the added information.
Not knowing anything about forces records it leaves me scratching my head.
Where do I look for AJK's service record?
Will it still be with the MOD?
Is it possible to tell when he joined the Territorials?
Does the service record get passed on to some other organisation when you join the Territorials?
Is it possible to see the AJK obituary?
Sorry for being such a pain. I seem to have opened up a hornet's nest.
Benzol
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I don't think I can post the obituary due to copyright etc, but he died in 1936, not 1937. He was buried at Harehills Cemetery with full military honours on 13 Feb 1936, section Q 365. His headstone is a little worn but reads as follows:
RSM J Keane
Royal Signals
In memory of a very cheerful comrade
who died 9th February 1936
erected by all ranks and friends
of the 49th (W.R) divisional signals T.A
and Air Contingent Signals S.R
As far as I'm aware his records should still be with the MoD. For info, I have a family member who recently served full-time with the Reserves (which is something I didn't know could happen, until it did!) so its possible he was still in full-time service, even though he was with the territorials.
ADDED: Although his headstone says only J Keane, his burial record is as Arthur John Keane.
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There are a few family trees for him on Ancestry.
One has it that his son Ronald Arthur Keane was born 11th June 1926 at Tidworth Army Camp, Wiltshire. This suggest that Arthur was a serving soldier at that time.
The other son Peter John Keane was born in June 1921 at Hitchin.
One/both of their birth certificates may have Arthur's army number on it?
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You do not state why you require his army number, if it is to apply for his records then it is not necessary, you only need to supply his date of birth.
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Gwil you've identified the correct family on Ancestry.
As a matter of interest,
Lt. Peter J Keane was serving in WW2 with the Queen's Own Hussars. He was attached to the Raiding Support Regiment (RSR) part of the Special Forces operation. He was killed in Greece Jan 1945.
Benzol
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Jomot
Thank you for the additional information it was very interesting and I've passed it on to my nephew.
With regards the obituary I wonder if you could say where the record can be found. I'm sure my nephew would wish to see the details.
Benzol
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It more a report on his funeral than an obituary - Yorkshire Post 14 February 1936, Page 5, Column 2.
As an aside, the Sheffield Independent dated 11 Feb 1936 stated that he had been attached to the permanent staff of the 49th WR Divisional Signals at Gibraltar Barracks, Leeds for the previous four years, and was last on parade on Proclamation Day when he caught a cold. Proclamation Day would have been for Edward VIII, which I think was 21 Jan 1936.
The Bradford Observer of 14 Feb 1936 said his death was as a result of a severe cold caught while on parade at Leeds on Proclamation Day.
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Jomot
Thanks for your assistance. Very much appreciated.
You've given my nephew lots of new stuff to research.
Benzol