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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ravenseft on Tuesday 02 November 21 20:37 GMT (UK)

Title: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: ravenseft on Tuesday 02 November 21 20:37 GMT (UK)
This is from the 1881 census for Portsea.
The entry reads as follows:

Amelia Chambers - Cousin - Unm[arried] - 40 - Charwoman - Unite/White/Thite Porride

It is the last part of the entry (concerning the birth place) which needs deciphering (White Porride or similar). Any help gratefully accepted.
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 02 November 21 21:08 GMT (UK)
The first letter is a T. See Tailor in last entry of page

So Thite.  Could it be something like Thwaite?

Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 02 November 21 22:23 GMT (UK)
Parade like by the sea  :-\

Can you find her on previous (or later) census to see what birthplace she has on there?
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 02 November 21 22:49 GMT (UK)
Hi and welcome to RootsChat Ravenseft....I wonder it it could be White Parade.
Carol
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: ravenseft on Tuesday 02 November 21 22:51 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately not, neither on a previous nor a subsequent census. Even the birth date doesn't help as, assuming she was born in England or Wales, there's no Amelia Chambers born in the years 1840-43. For 1838 and 1839, there are two born in Medway and one in Whitechapel. It's frustrating as it is the only unreadable entry on the page and I've pored over it for two years now.
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 02 November 21 22:59 GMT (UK)
There seems to be a dotted i in the second word. Could it be “Parrish”?
Whiteparish in Salsibury? ?
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: manukarik on Tuesday 02 November 21 23:00 GMT (UK)
The second word looks like Porwick to me...
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: ravenseft on Tuesday 02 November 21 23:25 GMT (UK)
Lots of plausible suggestions. Porwick is a good one. Whiteparish could work but I have difficulty making out the 's' in the second word.

One other thing which could help - looking at the method used by the enumerator, he/she often uses two words for the place name - the county/country first, then the place (e.g. Hants Portsea, Scotland Stirling).
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 03 November 21 00:12 GMT (UK)
My first thought is that the first word is the county, followed by the place. I still don't know what it says though  ???
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: Lady Di on Wednesday 03 November 21 00:15 GMT (UK)
Is this the same "Amelia Chambers" who died/buried 19 July 1899 in Portsea (age 57) ex Union Infirmary?

The 1881 census says she was single but unable to find a matching lady between 1881 & 1899 to confirm her place of birth. Any sightings in Hants for 1891 census?
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: ravenseft on Wednesday 03 November 21 09:30 GMT (UK)
The difficulty with the 1899 Chambers is that she was a widow, and the 1881 Chambers is unmarried.
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: tonepad on Wednesday 03 November 21 09:51 GMT (UK)
Amelia Chambers is a cousin of the head of household Edward Williams, born London.
Try looking for a Chambers aunt/uncle of Edward Williams.
As Edward Williams is from London, the Whitechapel birth for Amelia may be relevant.

The census entry for Amelia is suspect as her name is written over a crossed out entry
(Anne Dawson?) and Thite Porride makes no sense.


Tony
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: glenclare on Wednesday 03 November 21 10:02 GMT (UK)
I think the crossed out bit is where they wrote cousin in the wrong place
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: thomo7 on Wednesday 03 November 21 10:30 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I'm not familiar with Portsea (except in Australia) so can't find it on the old nls maps but wondering if the second word could be ...rricle? rather than rride?
Just a thought :)
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 03 November 21 10:35 GMT (UK)
Amelia Chambers is a cousin of the head of household Edward Williams, born London.

She could also be the cousin of either of Edwards wives  :-\
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: Ian Nelson on Wednesday 03 November 21 11:35 GMT (UK)
Portsea is part of Portsmouth, England.  I searched oldmapsonline.org but couldn't see anything resembling the aforementioned place.
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: ravenseft on Wednesday 03 November 21 13:51 GMT (UK)
Tony - Edward Williams is my 2nd GG but I'm not 100% sure that I've got him correctly identified, hence the interest in verifying Amelia Chambers. I have him born in St Pancras, Middlesex on 29/01/1854 to Thomas Williams and Alice Bruce Royall. None of the Amelia Chambers I've researched, including the Whitechapel one, has an obvious connection as one would expect from a cousin. This Edward Williams dies in 1890.

Ian & Rosie - The address is 17 Silver Street (https://maps.nls.uk/view/105989404#zoom=5&lat=7558&lon=2710&layers=BT). The area is now better known as Southsea (https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map?x=463913&y=99395&z=110&sv=Silver+Street&st=6&tl=Map+of+Silver+Street,+Southsea,+Hampshire,+PO5&searchp=ids&mapp=map).

Rosie - I've only been able to track one wife for Edward - Sarah Reynolds, b. 22/04/1845 in Plaitford, Hants to James Reynolds and Sarah Roles. Plaitford is not far from Whiteparish - one of the suggestions above.
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: tonepad on Thursday 04 November 21 06:56 GMT (UK)
The family relationships on the 1881 census for the Williams household are not simple.
The Kemp Williams children were born Kemp implying that Sarah Reynolds was previously married to a Mr. Kemp. The last two men Jas and Alfred have the Williams surname, but are shown as Boarders and not relatives of the head of household.

So the relationship between Amelia Chambers/Anne Dawson and the Williams family is not clear.


Tony
Title: Re: 1881 England census - Illegible birth place
Post by: ravenseft on Thursday 04 November 21 10:05 GMT (UK)
Tony - well spotted. It's taken me a few years to dig through the complex relationships. Sarah Reynolds was first married to Thomas Carter, then she went off with George Kemp (without marrying him) who died in 1879 (in the house next door - 18 Silver Street). She then married Edward Williams (possibly bigamously). In the 1881 census, there are children from the Kemp relationship and also from the Williams relationship. In addiion, there are two other persons, at least one of whom is a brother of Edward Williams.

Amelia Chambers does not appear in the 1891 census entry for the family (now at 21 Silver Street) nor do the Williams relations.