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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Newfloridian on Monday 01 November 21 13:05 GMT (UK)
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Just wondering whether Parish Registers for London 1912 are available anywhere on line.
The detail:
Alice E Giles married Evan Williams Q1 1912 Islington 1b 457
(I guess I would like confirmation of what her "E" stands for!)
Many thanks
Alan
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I've checked marriage locator, but it doesn't come up with anything for the marriage
https://www.marriage-locator.co.uk
I've had a browse through the St Michael Islington records, but it's not there.
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I've checked marriage locator, but it doesn't come up with anything for the marriage
https://www.marriage-locator.co.uk
I've had a browse through the St Michael Islington records, but it's not there.
It's looking likely that it took place in a register office,which of course will not be online.
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Alice E Giles married Evan Williams Q1 1912 Islington 1b 457
A marriage indexed 1b 454, Fowler-Andrew, has a postem on FreeBMD, says it was on 10 Feb at Islington Register Office.
So your one won't be in a parish church, and, yes, likely was at the RO.
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Thank you all.
That was the conclusion I was coming to. I have decided to bite the bullet and obtain a marriage certificate to confirm one way or the other.
If this Alice E Giles is my person of interest I might have to return with a supplementary question to resolve the whole affair!
Cheers Alan
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Thank you all.
That was the conclusion I was coming to. I have decided to bite the bullet and obtain a marriage certificate to confirm one way or the other.
If this Alice E Giles is my person of interest I might have to return with a supplementary question to resolve the whole affair!
Cheers Alan
Can you not find the couple in 1939 to confirm ?
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Hi Carol
Tried that - too many Alice Williams (695) born in 1866 and Evan Williams (21845) without a year of birth in the 1939 Register.
No, the background to this story is that a chance finding is leading me to exclude bigamy.
My person of interest, Alice Evangeline Craxford married hat salesman Alfred Edward Giles in 1889 at St Botolph Without Aldgate. They had three children. The 1901 census has them living separately - Alice with her three children in Islington; Alfred boarding out in Hammersmith. Not conclusive evidence of separation I hastily admit. Not found either of them conclusively in 1911 either.
Younger daughter born 1899 died 1901. Then son Alfred Edward Richard Giles died in 1913 aged 22 years. I am always curious to know cause of death in the young so I obtained the death certificate. Died in University College Hospital with complications of pneumonia. What sparked all this off was that the informant of his death had signed herself "Mrs A. Williams, Mother". That led to the finding of the Alice E Giles to Evan Williams in Islington in 1912. So, was it the same person? Only the marriage certificate is going to clear this one up.
And, if so, what happened to Alfred Edward Giles?
Cheers Alan
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Alice’s baptism shows that her birthdate was 3 October 1866. Have you tried filtering the 1939 Alice Williams by precise birthdate? Of course she may not have survived to 1939.
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Does that 1913 death certificate give an address for A Williams
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Does that 1913 death certificate give an address for A Williams
Yes, 83 Queensland Road, Islington
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Alice’s baptism shows that her birthdate was 3 October 1866. Have you tried filtering the 1939 Alice Williams by precise birthdate? Of course she may not have survived to 1939.
I'm not sure you can search the 1939 Register with the exact birthdate (using FindMyPast at least). In any event, quoted birthdates there are notoriously inaccurate when you see the full entry, at least in my experience.
Alan
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You can search the 1939 Register by exact birthdate, and that is one of the features that makes it so useful. The birthday (day/month) seems to slip less frequently than the birth year.
Anyway I’m not seeing her unfortunately. I also can’t see a death of an Alice Evangeline Williams on the GRO website between 1913-1957, other than a 17 yr old (in Stockport, 1914) who isn’t yours.
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Does that 1913 death certificate give an address for A Williams
Yes, 83 Queensland Road, Islington
Thank you. In multiple occupation in 1911 so no leads there
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1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGV-K82
GILES, ETHEL EDITH mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 247
GILES, WINIFRED EMILY mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 282
GILES, STANLEY LAWRENCE mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 179
GILES, GLADYS BEATRICE mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 730
GILES, GLADYS mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 676
GILES, CLAUD EVAN mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 654
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Deceased online has
Giles , Gladys Beatrice
burial 02 December 1901
location Islington
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GILES, ETHEL EDITH mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 247
Death Sep qtr 1893
Giles Ethel Edith 0 W. Ham 4a 138
GILES, WINIFRED EMILY mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 282
Death Dec qtr 1894
Giles Winifred Emily 0 W. Ham 4a 124
GILES, STANLEY LAWRENCE mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 179
Death Sep qtr 1896
Giles Stanley Lawrence 0 W. Ham 4a 108
GILES, GLADYS BEATRICE mmn CRAXFORD
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 730
Death Dec qtr 1901
Giles Gladys Beatrice age 1 Islington 1b 182
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Hi Rosie
Yes, I've just been checking up on those other births (Giles mmn Craxford) and deaths. Seems that Alice had eight children in total and that she had taken up with Evan Williams by 1902. I would suspect that the 1912 marriage is between this Evan and Alice. The marriage certificate would prove that.
Question remains: where did her husband Alfred Edward Giles go? I've accumulated a number of bigamous relationships along the way and it isn't always as simple as it seems. Divorce was very expensive and very difficult to obtain. It also seems that if the couple had been split for ten years - and they could claim that they had no idea where their ex-partner was or even still alive, then the subsequent marriage could well be considered not bigamous. The ten year gap between the 1901 census and the 1912 marriage could well justify that.
As an aside, I have to admit that following Alice Angeline was initially only a side issue from that of her brother William James Craxford, a blind organist in Lincolnshire who died young and his four children ended up in the London Infant Orphan Asylum.
Cheers Alan
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Question remains: where did her husband Alfred Edward Giles go? I've accumulated a number of bigamous relationships along the way and it isn't always as simple as it seems. Divorce was very expensive and very difficult to obtain. It also seems that if the couple had been split for ten years - and they could claim that they had no idea where their ex-partner was or even still alive, then the subsequent marriage could well be considered not bigamous. The ten year gap between the 1901 census and the 1912 marriage could well justify that.
Have you ruled out the man in this couple? They appear in a number of trees on Anc.
Alfred Edward Giles and Zillah Jane Hoare. There's no apparent marriage for the couple but they appear to have had 7 children between 1905 and 1919.
1949 Q4 Death - Alfred Edward Giles; age 83 (born c1866); Battersea; 05C; 83
1953 Q3 Death - Zillah Jane Giles; age 77 (born c1876); Wandsworth; 05D; 530
1905 Q4 Birth - Ethel Zillah Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 419
1908 Q1 Birth - Mabel Doris Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 371
1910 Q2 Birth - Dorothy Winifred Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 392
1912 Q3 Birth - Margaret Emily Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 725
1914 Q4 Birth - Zillah Edith Giles (mmn: Hoare); Wandsworth; 01D; 1189
1916 Q1 Birth - Sydney Lawrence Giles (mmn: Hoare); Wandsworth; 01D; 1179
1919 Q2 Birth - Phyllis Alice Giles (mmn: Hoare); Wandsworth; 01D; 812
1911 Lambeth
Alfred & Zillah
+3 children
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5S-LF4
Zillah and family in earlier years:
1861 Q3 Birth - Francis Lewis Hoare (mmn: Waring); Woodstock; 03A; 556
1863 Q2 Birth - Agnes Eliza Ann Hoare (mmn: Waring); Woodstock; 03A; 585
1867 Q4 Birth - Elizabeth Mary Hoare (mmn: Waring); Woodstock; 03A; 608
1869 Q1 Birth - Albert Job Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 735
1870 Q3 Birth - George Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 679
1874 Q2 Birth - Ralph Eric Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 722
1875 Q4 Birth - Zillah Jane Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 711
1879 Q3 Birth - Mabel Edith Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 764
1880 Q4 Birth - Emily Miriam Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 758
1883 Q3 Birth - Hubert Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 808
1883 Q3 Birth - Rose Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 808
1898 Q1 Birth - Evelyn Mabel Shaper (mmn: Hoare); Pancras; 01B; 149
1900 Q2 Birth - Frederick Shaper (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 462
1881 Chipping Norton
Zillah
with parents Lewis and Mary
+siblings
Ref RG11; Piece 1520; Folio 48; Page 23; Schedule 666
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27H-145J
1891 Clerkenwell, Holborn
Possibly Zillah (birth place differs)
Servant in Whitehill household
Ref RG12; Piece 229; Folio 50; Page 48; Schedule 351
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3RB1-43Z
1901 Clapham, Wandsworth
Zillah
with married sister Bessie (Elizabeth Mary?) and her husband Frederick Shaper
Ref RG13; Piece 464; Folio 140; Page 25; Schedule 154
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9CC-387
EDIT: Corrected number of children (6 => 7) for Alfred and Zilliah
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Hi Cuffie
Many thanks
I think you have given me the "clincher" there that Alfred Giles was still alive in 1911 - and that's because of his occupation. He has been a hatter or hat salesman throughout. He decalred in the census that they had been married for 7 years and had three children.
Assuming that Alice's marriage in 1912 is correct and that there in no marriage for Alfred and Zilpah, my inclination would be to say that Alice's relationship was bigamous but Alfred's wasn't. I'll take expert advice on that one.
Alan
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Hi Alan
From here https://craxford-family.co.uk/getperson.php?personID=I6407&tree=Craxford1 Alfred Edward Giles's death is given as being in Battersea in 1949. This one?
GILES, ALFRED EDWARD - age 83
GRO Reference: 1949 D Quarter in BATTERSEA Volume 05C Page 83
Death likely I would think. He was in Wandsworth in 1939 with his second family. Do you have a birth date for him to compare with?
A death in 1936 in Wandsworth is given for Alice in the link above but this is for an Alice Eliza Giles which, from what you have, would not be correct.
Monica
Added: cuffie81, sorry! You had the likely death for Alfred Giles already on a previous post ::)
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No worries, Monica. That's a nice tree you've found there, just a shame it doesn't provide any more info about Alice's death.
I have a somewhat loose idea of what may happened to Alice, although I can't find enough records to be sure either way; so feel free to shoot it down. I think Evan Williams may have died in 1912 and Alice remarried to a Charles William Burrows in 1914.
Evan Williams
Looking for Evan Williams' in the London area, born c1863 (as per 1911 census (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=854882.msg7230971#msg7230971)), we have the following deaths. I think I can account for most of these deaths and can rule them out but the 1912 death sticks out.
Possible GRO BMD references:
1912 Q2 Death - Evan Williams; age 50 (born c1862); Islington; 01B; 284
1925 Q1 Death - Evan William Williams; age 63 (born c1862); Croydon; 02A; 461
1926 Q1 Death - Evan Williams; age 65 (born c1861); Islington; 01B; 191
1933 Q4 Death - Evan Williams; age 68 (born c1865); Willesden; 03A; 348
1945 Q3 Death - Evan Williams; age 84 (born c1861); Wandsworth; 01D; 270
On the 1901 census, the Evan we're looking for looks to be in Islington and is a carman, which might tally with the newspaper item below.
1901 Campbell Road, Islington
Evan Williams, boarder, born c1865, carman
Ref RG13; Piece 168; Folio 126; Page 28; Schedule 197
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9Z7-BFJ
Islington Gazette
24 Jun 1912
page 5, column 6
Died At His Work
- inquest held at Islington into death of
- Evan Williams,
- aged 50,
- labourer,
- of 61 Brewery Road, Caledonian Road.
- widow stated on Tuesday morning,
- he went out to his work
- and returned home for breakfast,
- when he was as usual.
- he went out again to work,
- and later on she heard of his death
- deceased has told her three weeks ago that
- he came over faint whilst at the barber's.
- William Daniels,
- of 6 Marquess Road, horsekeeper,
- said on Tuesday morning he was in
- Capon's Yard, 2 Brandon Road, Cattle Market,
- when he saw deceased on top of a load of straw.
- he [Williams] asked Daniels to assist him to tie the load down,
- and he did so.
- deceased, on getting down, complained he had come over queer,
- and Daniels noticed he was gasping for breath.
- he [Williams] went down on his knees,
- rolled over onto his back, became unconscious,
- and died ten minutes afterwards
...
- a post-mortem had been performed,
- and found death due to the rupture of an
- aneurism of the aorta
- verdict in accordance with medical evidence
Burial
name: Evan Williams
buried: 24 Jun 1912; Islington
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1184651
Map: Campbell Road, Islington (1914; now Whadcoat Street)
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.56403&lon=-0.11077&layers=168&b=7
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.56305/-0.10836
Campbell Road (N4) renamed Whadcoat Street
https://maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/Old_to_New_London_Street_Name_Changes.htm
Map: Brewery Road, Islington, adjoining Caledonian Road
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.54404/-0.12235
EDIT: Added clarification of the birth year of Evan Williams we're looking for.
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Charles William Burrows & Alice E Williams
Possible GRO BMD references:
1914 Q4 Marriage - Charles William Burrows & Alice E Williams; Islington; 1b; 761
1933 Q1 Death - Charles William Burrows; age 68 (born c1865); Finsbury; 01B; 798
1942 Q1 Death - Charles W Burrows; age 59 (born c1883); Battersea; 01D; 423
1952 Q1 Death - Charles William Burrows; age 74 (born c1878); Islington; 05C; 1006
1955 Q2 Death - Charles William Burrows; age 72 (born c1883); Hammersmith; 05C; 669
There are a number of Charles Burrows in London around this time but the 1933 death does seem to tie in with the following electoral registers.
Electoral registers:
1926-1928 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd
1930 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Claude Evan Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott
1932 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Winifred Mary Bond,
- Catherine Lloyd, Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott
Alice Burrows & Charles William Burrows no longer at Ironmonger Street in 1933.
Note Claude and Ellen Giles at the same address in 1930 (see below for more info on Claude).
Likely burials for the death registrations:
Burial
name: Charles William Burrows
buried: 14 Jan 1933; Islington
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1261033
Burial
name: Charles William Burrows
buried: 17 Jan 1952; Islington
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1331716
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Claud/e Evan Giles
Likely son of Alice.
Possible GRO BMD references:
1905 Q3 Birth - Claud Evan Giles (mmn: Craxford); Holborn; 01B; 654
1929 Q4 Marriage - Claud Evan Giles & Ellen E Clements; Holborn; 1b; 111
1981 Q1 Death - Claude Evan Giles; 03 Aug 1905; Thanet; 16; 1935
Marriage
married: 25 Dec 1929; St Paul, Clerkenwell; banns
groom: Claud Evan Giles; 24; bach; News agent; 7 Leage? Street
bride: Ellen Elizabeth Clements; 24; spin; -; 7 Leage? Street
grooms father: Claud Evan Giles (dec); shop assistant
brides father: Ernest Bertram Clements; fitter?
witnesses: Ernest Bertram Clements, Katherine Julia Clements
There's an obvious discrepancy here, of the groom's father, named as Claud Evan Giles. However, I can't see any other births for a Claud/e Evan Giles of this age.
Electoral registers:
1930 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
[See record for Alice and Charles Burrows]
1931 - 7 Leage Street, Islington
- Ellen Clements, Ernest Bertram Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
1932 - 7 Leage Street, Islington
- Ellen Clements, Ernest Bertram Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
1933 - 7 Leage Street, Islington
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
1934 - 7 Leage Street, Islington
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
1935 - 7 Leage Street, Islington
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
1936 - 7 Leage Street, Islington
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
1938 - 15 King Square, Islington
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles,
+others
Map: Ironmonger Street & Leage Street, Islington
https://maps.nls.uk/view/103030824#zoom=5&lat=5199&lon=3393&layers=BT
Map: Area surrounded by Old Street, Bath Street and Lever Street, where Ironmonger Street & Leage Street were
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.52574/-0.09263
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This must be Alice and Evan in 1911, showing that Evan was born c.1863
Baldwin Street, St.Lukes Married 12 years
Evan Williams 48
Alice Williams 44
Gladys Williams 7
Claud Evan Williams 5
There’s an Alice E. in 1939 born 03/10/1866 but her surname is Childs.
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This must be Alice and Evan in 1911, showing that Evan was born c.1863
Lily, Rosie had already located the 1911 census record for Evan, Alice and the children.
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGV-K82
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Sorry Rosie. I read through, but didn’t see that!
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Hi Cuffie
Thanks once again. Food (nay a veritable banquet) for thought there.
I've sent you a PM
Alan
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Charles William Burrows (of 10 Ironmonger Street) was buried at Islington Cemetery on January 14th 1933
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There’s an Alice E. in 1939 born ***** but her surname is Childs.
I don't think this is the Alice we're looking for, her middle name is Elizabeth.
GRO reference:
1963 Q1 Death - Alice E Childs; age 97 (mmn: 1866); Woolwich; 5d; 1335
Electoral registers:
1937-1939 - 278 Halfway Street, Sidcup
Alice Elizabeth Childs
1937-1939 - 276 Halfway Street, Sidcup
Arthur Edmund Cecil Jarrett, Beatrice Alice Clara Jarrett
Probate index
Alice Elizabeth Childs
of 278 Halfway Street, Sidcup, Kent
widow
died 15 Jan 1963
at Memorial Hospital Shooters Hill, Kent
Probate
to Beatrice Alice Clara Jarrett
(wife of Arthur Edmund Cecil Jarrett)
and the said Arthur Edmund Cecil Jarrett, railway official
Effects £736
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=childs&yearOfDeath=1963#calendar
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Charles William Burrows & Alice E Williams
Electoral registers:
1926-1928 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd
1930 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Claude Evan Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott
1932 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Winifred Mary Bond,
- Catherine Lloyd, Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott
Not that it helps much but Alice & Charles were at the same address in earlier years.
1919 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Sarah Golton
1920 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Sarah Goldon
1921-1922 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd
1924-1928 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd
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I'm just wondering if the answer to where Alice Evangeline went could be answered by what happened to her son Claud(e) Evan.
There is no doubt that Claud(e) was Evan William's son born when Evan and Alice were living together. Claud(e) was registered Giles mmn Craxford.
I would say it is also beyond reasonable doubt that Alice was married to Charles Burrows because Claud(e) and his wife were living with them in Ironmonger Street in 1930.
After Charles died, did Alice move with her son and daughter in law? I haven't yet found any of them in the 1939 Register. ?moved abroad perhaps
Alan
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As per my previous post, I think Claud died in Kent.
Claud/e Evan Giles
Possible GRO BMD references:
1905 Q3 Birth - Claud Evan Giles (mmn: Craxford); Holborn; 01B; 654
1929 Q4 Marriage - Claud Evan Giles & Ellen E Clements; Holborn; 1b; 111
1981 Q1 Death - Claude Evan Giles; 03 Aug 1905; Thanet; 16; 1935
If you search for Claud in 1939, he looks to be in Kent. But Ellen isn't with him.
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I now have some details about the children of these relationships. Both Gladys (October 16th 1903) and Claud Evan (August 3rd 1905) were born in the City of London Lying In Hospital. Both were registered with their father as Alfred Edward Giles and mother's maiden name was Craxford.
In 1903 Alice was living in Goddings Road off the Caledonian Road; and in 1905 in The Cottage, Citizen Road, Holloway.
Almost at the same time, Zillah Jane Hoare had a daughter, Ethel Zillah, registered as Giles, in Q4 1905 (birth certificate requested).
I'm just wondering how much obfuscation is going on here? Who was living with who? And why would Alice have given her son Claud another man's not particularly common name as a second given name (Evan)?
Alan
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The birth of Claud Evan Giles and Ethel Zillah Giles (daughter of Zillah) around the same time, and Alfred being named as father of Claud, does seem a bit odd.
My feeling is that Evan Williams is the likely father of Claude. If he was, it begs the question why Alice would have named Alfred as the father on the birth cert. Maybe it was just as simple as Alice 'keeping up appearances', as she was still married to Alfred.
If Alfred really was the father of Claud, where does the name Claud Evan come from? I haven't come across any Claudes or Evans in Alfred's or Alice's families.
And Claude himself seemed a bit confused as to his father's name, based on his marriage record.
I have had a search of the newspapers to see if I could find anything that might add some clues but no joy I'm afraid. I did come across a curious story about Claude's mother-in-law though.
The People
16 Apr 1939
page 5
Bettors Spied By Binoculars
- Police sergeant and a constable stationed on roof of a building
- saw man inside a house taking betting slips.
- there was a raid, and George Bates, 30,
- of Mitchell-st, was arrested
- that was the story that was told at Old-st police court yesterday,
- when Bates was fined £15,
- for using a house in Leage-st, Finsbury,
- for the purpose of betting
- Mrs Ellen Clements, 62, was bound over
- on a charge of permitting him to use the premises
- it was stated that the front door of the house
- had been rendered almost impregnable
...
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CONFIRMED:
Alice Evangeline Giles (father William Craxford - deceased) married Evan Williams at Islington Register Office on February 13th 1912. It was witnessed by her oldest son, Albert Edward Richard and oldest daughter Alice Lydia. Alice declared herself to be a widow.
They were both living at 61, Brewery Road at the time. This then also confirmed that this was a very short lived marriage as Evan died at work on June 18th 1912. The inquest quoted the same residential address although Alice was not mentioned.
Clarification now sought for the 1914 marriage to Charles Burrows. It this is the cane then the likely candidates for Alice's death are 1951 and 1953.
Not wanting to obfuscate this topic any further I did have a passing fancy as to where son Claud's middle name Evan came from. Although by far the most likely scenario was that it was a nod to Evan Williams being his father, I did wonder whether it might be a shortened pet name from Evangeline. I have looked up a number of sources but haven't found that to be a suggestion.
Cheers Alan
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That's good to know, Alan. I'm slightly relieved I didn't send you off on a wild goose chase.
Clarification now sought for the 1914 marriage to Charles Burrows. If this is the case then the likely candidates for Alice's death are 1951 and 1953.
What are the deaths you're looking at in 1951 and 1953? I did have a look for deaths of Alice but none stood out to me, and I started toying with the idea that she may have re-married.
Tracing Alice's children, Alice Lydia, Gladys and Claude, Alice wasn't a witness at any of their marriages and I couldn't find Alice with any of them on electoral registers either (although there are some gaps in years that I couldn't fill).
Did you have any possible references for Alice after 1933 (assuming she did marry Charles Burrows)?
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CONFIRMED: Alice Evangeline (Craxford) Williams, widow, married Charles William Burrows (widower and railway goods porter) at Islington Register Office on December 26th 1914.
There is one possible sighting of Alice E Burrows after Charles died in a marriage to James Moore in the Bermondsey District in the summer of 1936. There is then (again a widow) Alice Moore born in 1866 (same year as Alice E Craxford), an office cleaner, living in Crosby Row, Bermondsey. I haven't seen a death for a James Moore to match though.
Alan
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I think the Alice who married James Moore is likely the daughter of Stanley Ward Burrows and Amy Hawkes.
GRO BMD references:
1891 Q1 Birth - Stanley Ward Burrows (mmn: Ward); Colchester; 04A; 594
1912 Q4 Marriage - Stanley W Burrows & Amy Hawkes; Southwark; 01D; 170
1913 Q2 Birth - Alice Ethel Burrows (mmn: Hawkes); Southwark; 01D; 158
Electoral registers:
1935-1936
148 Lynton Road, Bermondsey
Alice Ethel Burrows, Amy Burrows, Stanley Ward Burrows