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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Sherilla63 on Wednesday 20 October 21 18:30 BST (UK)
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Hello,
My 2 X Great Grandfather John Norman served in the Crimean War with what I believe to be the Scots Foot Guards from 13 Apr 1855 to 4 Jul1856 and was at the siege of Sevastopol. His Regimental number was 5122, he was discharged from the Army in Nov 1856 when the Army was being reduced.
All I have managed to find regarding him are some documents relating to his length of service for a pension that he received from the Army in 1909.
I have not been able to find any attestation papers or his out pension register information from the Royal Chelsea Hospital.
John was born in 1837 in Halstead Essex.
Any further information about this period of his life would be greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards
Sherilla
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There are two pages on FindMyPast from the Scots Guards records, including an extract from his attestation:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=s2%2fgbm%2fscots-g%2fsg_s10_1800-1857_5101-5200%2f00100&parentid=gbm%2fscg-serv%2f022870
He didn't serve long enough to qualify for an army pension.
Might the 1909 correspondence be to do with his claim for an Old Age Pension (introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over)?
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Hi,
Thank you for your reply. You have managed to find the documents that I first saw but couldn't find again. I thought that he probably didn't serve long enough to get an Army Pension, but on both the 1911 census and on my 2 x great grandmother's death cert he is shown as an Army pensioner.
I am a little confused as to why the documents from the Scots Guards show a 9d for life pension starting from 11 3 09, surely this must relate to some kind of Army pension and not a state one? Could there have been something that he had done during his short service that might have contributed to this sum being allocated?
I just wish that I knew a bit more about this time in his life, but I am now resigned to not being able to find out any more information about his time in the Crimea.
Thank you again for your help, it is much appreciated.
Regards
Sherilla
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It may have been a disability pension for an injury sustained in battle
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I'd missed that pension reference in the Scots Guards records!
He wasn't wounded so it wasn't a disability pension. It must have been a discretionary pension granted by the War Office. There are some newspaper reports of 9d a day pensions being awarded to Crimea veterans in the 1900s. Here's one:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000206%2f19010330%2f101&stringtohighlight=crimean%20war%20pension
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this is an interesting thread. My ancestor was in the RA and he died in 1855 August if I remember. But can never find any records
I always wondered if his widow git a pension.
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This is an interesting thread. My ancestor was in the RA and he died in 1855 August if I remember. But can never find any records.
I always wondered if his widow git a pension.
She may have received some support from the Royal Patriotic Fund which was set up in October 1854 with Prince Albert as its President. Its purpose was to co-ordinate the collection and distribution of money donated by the public for the widows and orphans of men killed during the Crimean War. Commissioners were appointed across the country and aid was distributed according to the needs of each family.
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how do you get access to this record? Thanks.
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bart88, if you are asking about Patriotic Fund records, try the National Archives catalogue. 359 hits for "Patriotic Fund"
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%22patriotic+fund%22
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Two of my ancestors served in the Crimean War, one went on to serve in the Indian Mutiny.
I no longer have a FindMyPast subscription, so I cannot, unfortunately, view the documents that others have found.
The UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 dataset on ancestry lists two John Normans with the regimental number 5122.
One served in the 1st Battalion, Scots Fusilier Guards; the other in the 1st Battalion, Coldstream Guards. Are you certain that your John served in the former? I'm sure that I can see an Essex lad being recruited by a Scottish regiment.
There are also 16 other John Normans and a John William Norman, who served in a
Anyway, by researching the regiment's activities during the war, you can develop a very good picture of what he must have experienced as a very young man
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One served in the 1st Battalion, Scots Fusilier Guards; the other in the 1st Battalion, Coldstream Guards.
"Coldstream Guards" is an error on the part of Ancestry. If you look at the original image, page back to image 318 (page 325) which is the beginning of that medal roll, and you will see that it is clearly headed "1st Battalion, Scots Fusilier Guards".
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Oops, I made the same mistake scrolling back in haste to image 315.
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Once again, I am amazed at how you manage to find these things. The newspaper article makes sense as although my ancestor was not destitute he would have been rather poor once he had retired from being a bricklayer.
In the granting of this small pension of 9d per day, it might have been the difference between him living at home until his death in 1917 going to the workhouse.
Thanks again for your investigation into this.
Regards
Sherilla
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Here's another 9d a day pension, granted in 1903, for a Crimea veteran who left the army immediately after the war:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000221%2f19031210%2f028&stringtohighlight=pension%20crimean%20war