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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Jeffrey on Friday 15 October 21 16:58 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know how I can get more information on the baptism, parents or family of Karl Frederik Reiner who says he was born in Mannheim, Germany in or around 1804?
I have found him in England when he marries Sarah Elizabeth Wickes at Thames Ditton in 1830. He had changed his name to Charles Frederick Reiner.
From then on I have found him in Census's from 1841 until he dies in 1884.
On the Census's he says he is from Baden Germany.
I know nothing about German records so any help gratefully received.
Thank you
Judy
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Ancestry has this record for your consideration:
Germany, Select Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898
Name: Friedrich Carl Reiner
Baptism Age: 0
Birth Date: 13. Okt 1804 (13 Oct 1804)
Baptism Date: 14. Okt 1804 (14 Oct 1804)
Baptism Place: Mannheim (A. Mannheim), Baden, Germany
Residence Place: Mannheim, Baden, Germany
Father: Friedrich Reiner
Mother: Josephe Caroline Priese
FHL Film Number: 1192144
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Dear Hillhurst,
Thank you so much for that. That birth/baptism would seem to fit in.
Are you by any chance able to let me know if he has siblings?
Much appreciated
Judy
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Sorry, no I didn't see any records for siblings, nor a marriage for his parents. However, I only searched for a few minutes, concentrating on Baden.
Which source of yours indicates he changed his name from Karl to Charles? Just curious...
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Another question: Would his father have been a teacher, as well?
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The sources is Census's and Nationalisation Records.
I am researching for a friend and they have been looking for ages but the Nationalisation Records clinched it.
And family recall.
How do you know his father was a teacher?
Judy
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How do you know his father was a teacher?
Actually I asked you if his father was also a teacher. I wouldn't know, you see.
If your friend doesn't have an Ancestry subscription, perhaps they could use the Family Search site, which is free. FS has some German record sets.
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:D I don't know if his father was a teacher.
I have looked on the Family Search site but haven't got anything that helped. I find the search is much more difficult since they changed it.
Thank you again for the suggestion. I will go back to the FS site and see if there is anything I have missed.
Judy
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I'm not a fan of the new FS searching interface either. I'll have a bit more time this weekend to search Ancestry for any additional Reiner records. I asked if his father was also a Teacher, in case it helps narrow down possible father leads. Who knows...teaching may have been the family profession.
I've checked Ancestry's England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869 collection, but nothing jumped out at me. Unless he entered the UK prior to 1826 and/or used a slightly different name.
Do the Nationalisation documents indicate what year he entered the UK? Do they mention any family names back in Germany? Any little detail will help, you see.
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There is no other family named on the Naturalization Records. :(
He says he was born in The City of Mannheim - which is why the Baptism you sent looked promising.
His Declaration was made on 4th Dec 1850.
He said he had resided in the country for 26 years - making it 1824 when he came.
He said he was 46 years old - making his year of birth most likely 1804
Apparently at some point went to Switzerland to train with the Pestolozzi school of education and he was a teacher at Cheam School. There are quite a few references to him there. In some of the references they say he came from Frankfort (sic) but I think the declaration which he wrote and others on his behalf are more likely to be accurate.
I looked for the names of his proposed father - Friedrich Reiner & mother - Josephe Caroline Priese on FS but found nothing.
Although I've been using FS since it came online I just can not get on with this new format so may have missed something.
He was a very well respected Maths (and other science subjects) teacher and became a Professor of Mathematics so I am thinking he must have had a good education in Germany or wherever before he came here.
Thank you for your help
Judy
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[Which source of yours indicates he changed his name from Karl to Charles? Just curious...
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Just to say Karl or Carl is the German form of Charles. So really he only Anglicised his name rather than changed it.
Judy
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Just to say Karl or Carl is the German form of Charles.
Sorry, I only know the Latin and Spanish forms of Charles.
I'm still not finding anything relevant yet to the Reiner family on Ancestry. It could be that a marriage record and sibling births (if any) aren't online yet.
Was he also affiliated with Dulwich College? There's an 1884 record (w/ image) on Find My Past for him. Could be just a brief "obit" - as he died in 1884, correct? It's in FindMyPast's Dulwich College Registers collection. If he was staff (and not former student) it probably just mentions when and how he was affiliated to Dulwich College.
Ancestry has a records collection for Mannheim, but the records begin in 1870. So not much help to you. Ancestry also have a birth/baptism record for him in the Baden, Germany, Lutheran collection. So the family were presumably Lutheran? The record offers no additional details to the record I posted above.
Might be better to search the individual German collections on Family Search, for quicker results.
Examples:
Baden Church Book Duplicates, 1804-1877
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1395660
Germany Research Tips:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Germany_Research_Tips_and_Strategies
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Germany_Record_Finder
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Thank you for looking and helping. Much appreciated.
I have looked through all the FS records now and found nothing. I think Mannhein must not be transcribed yet or online.
Very lucky to find that Birth/Baptism which could be the one.
As for religion I just don't know but would expect to be Lutheran. His Naturalization declares that "he is Educating his family according to the Established Religion of this country" It also mentions that he too is of the Established Religion of this country.
Thank you again
Judy
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Ancestry has this record for your consideration:
Germany, Select Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898
Name: Friedrich Carl Reiner
Baptism Age: 0
Birth Date: 13. Okt 1804 (13 Oct 1804)
Baptism Date: 14. Okt 1804 (14 Oct 1804)
Baptism Place: Mannheim (A. Mannheim), Baden, Germany
Residence Place: Mannheim, Baden, Germany
Father: Friedrich Reiner
Mother: Josephe Caroline Priese
FHL Film Number: 1192144
The original document: http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1228763-33
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Hi there
The Lutheran records for Mannheim (and a lot of other places!) are online at Archion.
https://www.archion.de/en/
Unfortunately. this is a subscription ssite and costs 20 euros for one month,expires automatically. so you don't have to worry about cancelling it.
Downnsides :
1) only 50 image downloads within that time frame.
2) Old German Handwriting can be impossible to decipher depending on what alphabet characters are being used. Obviously, it's all ABC etc (and a few more) but you wouldn't think that when you're looking at some old entries! You'd have to just focus on recognising the key word "Reiner" or "Karl" (which should be recognizable if only through its shortness)and hope you get lucky
I haven't got a subscription at the moment so cannot help
Good Luck!
Rebel
PS I also have a Karl/Carl in my family tree whose name evolved into Charles in London in the 1890s. Just a logical transition I expect.
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Thank you so much for the replies.
TreeSpirit Thank you so much for the web site of the original document - I have now looked at it.
Can anyone interpret it for me as there looks to be other names on there too. Any ideas.
Also can I search for other Reiner births on there - finding it difficult to negotiate the site! :-[
cockney rebel Thank you for the website. I have registered with that and as my husband has a German line I am stuck on I will pay for a month after familiarising myself with his line so I can make use of the 50 downloads.
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TreeSpirit Thank you so much for the web site of the original document - I have now looked at it.
Can anyone interpret it for me as there looks to be other names on there too. Any ideas.
What stood for me that it seems that both parents were from Gotha.
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Thank you. Gotha is quite a way from Mannheim.
Does it say his profession or anything else as my German is non-existent!
Thank you
Judy
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father's profession ( Friedrich Reiner): reisende Handelsmann. So he was a travelling salesman.
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Thank you for the transcription & interpretation.
Just G**gled 'reisende Handelsmann' and it could mean travellling Trader/Merchant too. That looks promising!
I can't find anything more about them in Gotha but will carry on looking.
The Gotha connection looks interesting as is Charles Frederick Reiner is said to have been a private maths tutor to Queen Victoria's children
Judy
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Just to thank everyone for your help on this topic.
Much appreciated. It's great to get this far.
Although I can't find any Gotha BMD's at the moment I will carry on looking
Thank you
Judy