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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: cjc1867 on Saturday 09 October 21 00:42 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have got a copy of a Will for a Richard Davies who died in 1846, his will says that he left his son William of Llettyrinen or something like that.
Please view the attached image and the word is highlighted.
Similar looking word 'the final colliery Lletty Shenkin (Aberdare, Glamorgan) closed in 1922' or it can be wrote as Llettyshenkin.
Maybe the word I am looking for is the name of an Colliery...
Thanks
Colin
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Could be Llettyrissen
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The closest to a Welsh word would be Lletyriwen.
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Putting Lletyriwen in Google produces links to the Tithe maps and Welsh newspapers*.
* add - somewhere in this notice-
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3324965
and Farm Name, Lettyriwen. Landowner, Davies David. Occupier, Davies David ... Farm Name, Lettyriwen. Landowner, Davies David.
https://places.library.wales/search/51.896/-4.168/13?alt=*%3A*&page=1&refine=&alt=*%3A*&order=desc&sort=score&rows=100&parish_facet%5B%5D=Llanegwad&leaflet-base-layers_98=on
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Using Gadget's excellent newspaper find, which mentions " ... an allotment of Court Henry Common ..." you can see "Lletty'r ywen" on this map.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102179276
It's on the eastern edge - on a level with the capital "L" of Llangathen (printed vertically).
My googling had thrown " ...Llettyriwen in the Parish of Llanfynydd ..." and mentioned "Glandulas"
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Checking Tithe maps under "Llettyr'ywen" I can see -
The Parish of Llanfihangel Aberbythych
Apportionemnt
Landowner - Earl of Cawdor
Occupier - William Davies
Plan No - 40
Description - Lletty'r ywen, Lands and Buildings
Statute Measure - 27 A(cres) 20 P(erches)
Tithe Value - 10d
Yet to check Tithe map
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The Lletty'r ywen that "fits" the William Davies on the Tithe Map is -
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102179564
Top right hand corner - just east of Golden Grove
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Good that you're following up HT, as I'm trying to get used to new reading glasses :-X
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Checking "Tithe maps" always a real pleasure.
cjc1867 - if you want to check out the Tithe Maps https://places.library.wales
Put "lletty'r ywen" (include the " " as part of key - important) in Search. Returns 3 hits
Click on "View Apportionment" for No.3.
Then play about with clicking on "View map" or "Tithe Map Overlay" or "Satellite" etc.
Pob lwc
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They're great! I've spent hours looking around the area where I grew up and then moved on to the other 'ancestral places' I even found some of my ancestors!
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Hi
Thanks for your help.
The farm sounds right as his family ran farms.
William's father was Richard Davies (b1766 d1846) and he had several farms near Llandybie, one farm was called Talarddfach and his wife Margaret (b1767?) is living there until she died in 1860.
Hywel (his family I am doing the research for) sent me this: 'Richard's name appears in the register of electors for 1833, and he appears to be letting Caemaen and another two farms while living at Merdy Newydd'. I still haven't found that document.
Hywel did his family tree at the time before internet, so his documents he has, he had to hand write them.
William's brother, John Davies had a farm at Pen Y Parc on Lord Dynevor's estate in 1841 and 1851 Census. Don't know if he was still there in 1861 as some of the 1861 census for Llandyfeisant are missing.
Now I need to look for William with that extra information and maybe I can find him in 1841 and 1851 census and further.
Colin
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1841 Census
I searched FindMyPast for William Davies, location Llanfihangel Aberbythych which delivered 4 possibles.
Think your William is one of them - but the farm name not quite transcribed as "Llettywiren" or "Lletty'r ywen" but the original image looks very much like like "Llettywiren".
The Census entry before William "fits" the details under Tithe Maps where I found William Davies".
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Hi
Just searching the 1841 Census just for a William Davies and 646 came up for Carmarthenshire.
This one looked similar 'Llellyruen, Llanfihangel Aberbythych, Llandilofawr', so I had a look at the original document.
See attached image and to me it looks like it could be the William Davies (b1808) I am looking for and his job is a farmer.
What do you think?
Colin
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I read it as Lettyrwen* with the ts uncrossed.
* missed the second l - Llettyrwen
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The David Griffiths that precedes William on the Census is also on the Tithe Maps under "Lletty'r ywen"
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Hi
I think we have the right William Davies as the images on the Will and 1841 Census look almost identical.
At least now I have a birth year to play with. Although on the Will, it mentioned David (b??), William, Anne (b1806) and John (b1809). I would have thought this was oldest to youngest, although the birth years could be out.
Poor John was left all of his father's clothes as well as £1 but not sure if it was £1 per year or just a £1. With Anne it just mentioned the same £1 and her husband Evan Davies.
It's a pity the Tithe maps don't show a date when they were there at that farm...
Got to find him now in the other Censuses.
Thanks very much again for your help.
Colin
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1851 reference HO107 247 539 4
Don't search with a YoB - quite different to 1841
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It's a pity the Tithe maps don't show a date when they were there at that farm...
Colin
If you check the Tithe Map that identifies William's holdings as "No 40" and scroll down to the foot of the page it will give you a year.
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William can be readily found 1861 - use 1851 YoB!
At last, no disputing farm name.
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Hi
Thanks for the info on the Tithe map i.e 1839 so that ties in nicely with the 1841 census.
Richard's Will was written on 14th February 1846, just 4 days before he died on the 18th February 1846, so that means William was still at the same farm then.
1851 Census, I had the very same page (HO107) open when you sent yours so I am going with that to see how it fits.
There's a marriage between William Davies and Mary Coslet in 1842 in Llandilofawr.
Sorry but can't find him in 1861 Census.
Colin
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I'm searching FindMyPast.
Just "William Davies" in Name, "1801 +/-2" in age and "Llanfihangel Aberbythych" in location returns William in 1861, 1871 and 1881 - address unchanged.
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Hi
I tried to find the 1861 Cenus on Find My Past and I couldn't find it. Just tried Ancestry and it found it straightaway. Tried again and no luck, although you said use his age from 1851 Census which was 1809.
The one I found on Ancestry I think maybe the right one, as it has Mary's dad Thomas Coset as the Head and living in Llandeybie. Thomas Coset was mentioned in 1851 Census.
Yes he must have married another Mary so need to look into that.
Maybe the 1851 Census we have is or isn't the right census then. Ages don't fit in...
Your 1861 census is better as their daughter Mary is more or less the same age and they are in the same area.
Colin
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In 1851 the Census has William age 50 - address "Llettyrenen Uchaf".
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Putting Lletyriwen in Google produces links to the Tithe maps and Welsh newspapers*.
* add - somewhere in this notice-
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3324965
One of the lots in the sale of the Pant Glas estate on 11 Sept 1821
Lot 21. A DWELLING-HOUSE, Blacksmith's Shop. and Two Gardens, with Three-fourths of a Meadow,; together with an Allotment oi Court-Henry Common, called Lettyriwen, containing 4A. 2R. in the occupation of Sarah Williams, as tenant from year to year, at the annual rent of 8l 8s.
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That's the Lletty'r ywen on the 1st map I posted - subsequently replaced by Tithe Map findings..
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I think you're talking about my 4xgreatgrandfather William Davies who farmed at Lletty'r Ywen, Llanfihangel Aberbythych from at least 1841 until his death in the early 1880s. I know nothing about a will and would be interested to know more.