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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Littletoot on Wednesday 06 October 21 05:25 BST (UK)
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I’m trying to find how my 2 x great grandfather came to Australia.
My 2 x G grandfather John Edwin Allen was born in Woolwich Kent in 1834, & baptised in St Mary Magdalene Church Woolwich 27/7/1834. John Edwin’s father was a gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery and the baptism certificate states he resided in the Artillery Barracks at that time.
John Edwin – age 6 appears with his family on the 1841 census under the surname ALLAN, father James mother Elizabeth, siblings Thomas, Susannah, Jane and Elizabeth. I cannot locate John Edwin on the 1851 census only his parents and younger sisters – residing Willesborough, Kent.
John Edwin married Mary Maling in Parramatta, Sydney Australia 6/2/1857. John Edwin died in Parramatta in 1862 and the cert. states he had been in the colony for 14 years.
On the 12/2/1857 John Edwins family arrived in Sydney on board the “Hindostan” – his father James, mother Elizabeth, sisters Jane and Elizabeth. Eldest sister Susannah was also on board the Hindostan as a married woman – Mr & Mrs Joseph Chanelor. John’s eldest brother was in the Royal Regiment as a Trumpet Major, but joined the family in Sydney about 1868.
I have searched shipping records coming into Australia and cannot seem to locate John Edwin Allen entering as he would have only been about 14 or 15. On the passenger details of his parents coming into Australia in 1857 it states under relations in the colony column “Son – John Allen residing with Mr. Tait”
Parramatta seems to be the area in which they all resided for some time. John married Mary Maling in Parramatta in 1857 and her parents were in Parramatta as well. There is very little details on John Edwin and Mary Maling’s marriage certificate – stating “No Parents” for both parties ?? maybe this is understandable as a baby was born just 4 months later.
John Edwin Allen had only been married 6 days when his parents arrived in the colony, he stated on his marriage certificate his occupation was a Servant and they were married in the Church of Scotland. Researching the name Mr. Tait I found a Rev. Tait was at the Church where John Edwin got married although his marriage was performed by Rev. Taits predecessor James Coutts.
Can anyone suggest any “schemes” that may have offered passage and employment in Australia during the period 1847 – 1850’s.
Thank you for taking the time to consider my request.
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NSW BDM
2311/1857 ALLEN John marr. MALING Mary @ Parramatta
What is the document that you are looking at?. Is it an image of the church register, image of Civil record from BDM, and either with handwriting ie signatures?. Is it a typed transcription?
What names do you see for witnesses?
What name do you see for informant on the death certificate, 1862?
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Hi Wivenhoe
The document I have is a typed transcription witnesses being Thomas Bicknell and Jemima Douglas, the informant of John Edwin Allens death certificate is James Allen his father.
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Not much help to you I know, just a suggestion. Have you considered that he may have worked his passage. At 14 or 15 years old he would have been well within the age of lads going to sea. Some would intend a sea career, then have a change of heart when arriving at a port that may have better prospects.
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If Mr TAIT was a clergyman I wonder if he might be identified by that title on the shipping records?
Considering the possibilities that Mr TAIT offers, is this marriage, 1849, of any interest?
NSW BDM
444/1849 V1849444 34C TAIT William marr. ALLEN Julia A NB
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Thanks Jebber
I wondered something similar. As his occupation when he married was Servant, I just wondered if he travelled with someone as a servant boy ??
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Hi Wivenhoe, I'll check out the marriage. No I wondered about Mr Tait but the shipping records don't say he was a clergyman. Only that the church ( Church of Scotland ) at Parramatta was the clergy before the one who married John Edwin and Mary.
I really thank any help or suggestions
Janette
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Do you have death certificate, NSW?, for James ALLAEN and wife Elizabeth?
Census England 1841, can you please identify this family. Using Ancestry, I am not seeing them.
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1841 Looks like they are at Westgate, St John, Northumberland, England
Class: HO107; Piece: 824; Book: 7; Folio: 16; Page: 25
Mick
Do you have death certificate, NSW?, for James ALLAEN and wife Elizabeth?
Census England 1841, can you please identify this family. Using Ancestry, I am not seeing them.
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Rev TAIT :D - son of Mr Tait perhaps?
https://oa.anu.edu.au/obituary/tait-george-8739
JM
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You need to account for all children born to James ALLEN and Elizabeth in case your John Edwin travelled to NSW with a sibling. A death certificate, NSW, 1889, will record children, with, hopefully, names and ages. When James dies, 1889, his children are around which would encourage you to hope that they record useful information on father's death certificate.
This death certificate would be useful for your research.
NSW BDM death
1658/1889 ALLEN James age 86 years died Sydney
Sydney Morning 24 Oct 1889 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13746676?
ALLEN. —October 23, at his daughter's residence, Carlton House, Surry Hills, James Allen, formerly of her Majesty's Royal Horse Artillery, Woolwich, England, in the 87th year of his age.
Sydney Morning Herald 25 Oct 1889 p12
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13746960?
THE FRIENDS of Mr. and Mrs. CHAWLOR are respectfully invited to attend the Funeral of the late
Mr. JAMES ALLEN; to move from Carlton House, No. 12, Bellevue-street, Surry Hills, THIS (Friday) AFTERNOON, at half-past 1 o'clock, for the Necropolis.
(I think this is a clumsy effort at CHANILOR)
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Hi Wivenhoe,
I have both James Allen and his wife Elizabeth ( Catherine ) death certificates.
I have accounted for all their children.
Thomas the eldest was born in Ireland 1827 - He came to Australia much later than the rest of the family - 1868@ I have his death cert.
Susannah Allen was also born in Ireland (Whilst James was stationed with the Royal Horse Artillery) Susannah married Joseph Chanelor in England and they were both on the same ship "Hindostan" with her father James and mother Elizabeth Allen immigrating to Australia in 1857.
John Edwin Allen was not on the ship as his death certificate states he was in the colony for 14 years before his death - 1862 - 14 = 1848
I have John Edwin Allen's death certificate, he died very young in 1862 leaving a wife and 3 small children under 5.
Jane also came to Australia with parents in 1857 she never married and died a spinster
Elizabeth also came to Australia with parents in 1857 she married a Charles Graham in 1870 no issue are stated on her death certificate
This family is located on the 1841 census but the surname has been spelt ALLAN not ALLEN at Wesgate In 1851 they are located in Willesborough Kent as James was no longer in the army. Only the 2 yougest daughters are on this census.
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In you original post you say "I'm trying to find how my 2 X great grandfather came to Australia".
The National Archives www.nationalarchives.gov.uk has a number of important records for newly arrived Australian migrants. The Colonial Office papers relating to the governance of New South Wales during the nineteenth century all contain names of emigrants. They can be found in series CO 201, CO 202, CO 360 and CO 369. Censuses were taken at various points from 1788 onwards and are recorded in series HO 10.
The above papers may give a clue as to how John Edwin Allen travelled to Australia.
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Many of those who arrived into New South Wales in the 1840s from overseas, came 'steerage' and their names were often not individually listed. .... just noted on the manifest as .X in steerage. At 14 he would have been counted as an adult.
The NSW census records for 1828 and fragments for 1841 exist. Too early to help our poster's quest. The 1891 householder return is the 'next extant one.... Too late to help our poster's quest.
NSW state Archives has ships' passenger lists including digitised images freely available at their website, in chronological order of arrival.
Re the blanks on the NSW marriage cert, missing info on the parents etc. Not at all unusual for that era, civil registration commenced March 1856, many clergy sent only summary info to the Reg Generals Office, but had all the details on their local church registers. You shared the names of witnesses, for NSW 2311/1857 marriage, but can you confirm the name of the clergy and the denomination please...
JM
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Hi Majm
John Edwin Allen's marriage certificate transcription I have Registration # 2311
6 Feb 1857
Parramatta
Church of Scotland
John Allen
Bachelor
Servant
Minister - James Coutts
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Hi ScobieDrom
Thanks for that information regrading the National Archives.
I will sit and try and see how to search those papers - Thanks for the tips
Janette