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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: ozeannie on Wednesday 06 October 21 01:34 BST (UK)
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Help please in dating photographs. I am trying to determine if the lady in both photos is my g-g-g-grandmother. The photos are taken in Australia. I realise they are not very clear photos, but an approximate decade would help. I have a thought about the date but won't say as I don't want to "lead" anyone... just to see if another's guess is the same as mine.
There are a number of photos online circulating said to be of this lady - some at a much younger age. I believe a lot of the photos online are not of her, but of her daughter who had the same name, Agnes.
If the date suggested is well past her date of death, (again I don't want to "lead") then obviously it can't be of her...
Unfortunately the photos have been copied and shared so many times that no-one seems to know the provenance of the photos.
Any help appreciated, thanks
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First of all these are ambrotypes.
1st. one is 1850's-60's.
2nd. 1860's.
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It’s almost impossible to say, but they could be the same woman. Lack of detail but similar face shapes maybe? In the first photo she looks too old to be the mother of the baby she is holding. I wonder if they are grandparents and grandchild. It doesn’t help with your query though.
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I wonder whether the drawn in cheeks of the woman with the baby is because she has had her teeth out. That would make her look a lot older.
Add - there appears to be a big difference in her eyes that is not just an age differerence so I don't think they are the same person.
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I think you’re right about those eyes Gadget. :) I thought the first woman looked a bit “jowly” but that could be an illusion due to the head covering. Dad doesn’t look like a spring chicken either though. :)
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Wow thanks so much everyone for your comments - that is a massive help!
I agree the people with the baby look too old to be the parents - however this photo is believed to be taken either in 1858 or 1860 - as the baby is believed to be either the youngest or second youngest child of the couple. Agnes was 40 when she had her last child - she was born in 1820, and William in 1806. She had an extremely harsh life (came to the Female Factory, Hobart as a convict), William was also a convict. They both had to survive dreadful conditions and after they gained their freedom they were faced with all sorts of challenges.
So it is enlightening to know that the photo can be identified as around 1860 due to it being of a particular type! It means that the people cannot be of the next generation down, at least.
We weren't sure if it was Agnes or one of her daughters, but if it was one of her daughters, then it would have had to have been late 1800's rather than middle... so this is very exciting as it means it is very likely to be of Agnes. She was an incredible lady with an incredible story... she started life as an street urchin orphan in Glasgow, Scotland.... got caught for petty theft (just trying to survive)... transported to Australia... in and out of the female factory, found herself pregnant... but managed to survive all this... afterwards, she and William lived on the land and worked hard to support their growing family. They ended up with a family who managed to establish themselves well.
I think the photo of Agnes on her own must have been taken later, maybe in the 1870's.... she died in 1877... so only aged 57.. which is much younger than she looks in the photo - but it is hard to tell, not being very clear, and as covered up as she is....
It couldn't be her mother or anyone of the previous generation as they weren't around... so it does seem to add up, notwithstanding how old she looks in the photo.
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What a sad story, she obviously had a very hard life. The fact that the images have been copied many times has resulted in a lot of fine detail being lost, also early monochrome photos were not always flattering due to the harsh tones.
Thanks for sharing and pleased that you got a result.
Carol
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I wonder whether the drawn in cheeks of the woman with the baby is because she has had her teeth out. That would make her look a lot older.
Add - there appears to be a big difference in her eyes that is not just an age differerence so I don't think they are the same person.
I also have my doubts about them being the same woman. :-\
Wiggy
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side by side
(add - as I said in my previous post, the eyes are very different. Now I see that the noses are as well)
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Yes you could be right - the images aren't all that similar... but then again I have photos of myself that look completely different...
The problem in trying to identify the photos is that I suspect that at least one of them may have been submitted online by someone who has themselves passed on..
It seems at least that the dating of the photo is something we can work with - circa 1860 ... so it is definitely not any of Agnes or William's children as older adults... and there are no siblings in Australia of either of them... and no parents...
The only other possibility would be if someone has mixed these photos up with another family entirely. There are many descendants of Agnes who have these photos up on ancestry - again... one person puts it up and every man and his dog copies... so tracing where they came from originally is difficult - and even then, the person who came across the photos initially may not be sure where they came from...
So we can at least say these photos are "believed to be" of Agnes and Agnes/William.
The baby could also be in fact their eldest grandchild who was born the same year as their youngest child.
Thanks again for all the comments, all interesting and helpful :)
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Yes Gadget - they do look quite different.
Annie, I know you have your doubts about what others have put online, but just because the photos originated from the one family doesn’t mean they are of the same woman. Could be another relative or a neighbour. Presumably you have tried to find the source of these photos?
How do you know they were taken in Australia?
Added: You answered my questions while Iposted this reply. Sorry. :)