RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Old-Bonez on Wednesday 29 September 21 04:01 BST (UK)
-
I am wishing to trace the decedents of William Turner (potter) of Longton 1762-1835. His father was the potter John Turner of Lane End whom I have good information on. It's been 16 years now and I have only managed to get forward a generation or so. I have never been able to trace what happened to the descendants of this brother of my GGGrandfather (John Turner the younger).
(Please note that Lane End is now known as Longton).
The details that I have are:
Married Elizabeth Wright (1776-1835) on 12 Oct 1799. Her father John may be connected to the Wrights of Eyam Hall but I could never establish a link. He may have been a banker of Stafford.
Surviving children:
Mary Ann Turner 1801-1878 - no children.
John Turner 1803-? May not have survived.
Sarah Turner 1806-1881 married William Palmer 1831 Stoke. They lived in Hanley. 6 children
Other births to Sarah:
William Turner Palmer 1833-1872 (nothing else known)
Henry Palmer 1835-1881 married Clara Atkin 1880 (Burton on Trent ref 6b 449 Henry Palmer / Clara Atkin). Child: Elsie Maud Palmer 1882-1965. (No Children).
Frederick Palmer who married Ellen Johnson 1864 Hartshill. Frederick had 6 children including Ada Sarah who married Theophilus Hughes 1889 Newcastle.
Martin Charles Palmer 1838-1873 (I don't think ever married)
The 1851 Census finds her at Edmund St. Hanley with William Palmer 55 as head working as Registrar of BDM Hanley. Sons William 19 Architect & Surveyor b, Shelton ... Henry 18 Writing Clerk b. Shelton ... Frederick 14 b. Shelton ... Martin 13 b. Shelton. They also had a 24yo servant.
The 1871 Census reveals she was receiving a Annuity. Living in her home (26 Church St Hanley) were her 3 sons Martin (architect), Henry (Timber Merchant) & William (architect) (all were over 30+). There was also a 6yo Nephew (b. Newcastle) and a maid.
Ernest Eric Young married, 1912, Elsie Maud, daughter of Col. H. Palmer, J.P., V.D.
Any help in this search would be greatly appreciated.
-
There is a burial for a John Turner age 5 at Longton on Oct 19th 1809
-
There is a William Turner baptism 23 June 1807
Do you know what happened to him?
A tree has a marriage at Wolstanton 11 Jan 1832 and the 1851 census does have a William Turner age 42 born Longton. A Potter.
Quite a few children. But perhaps you have already ruled him out since you dont mention him.
-
Martin Charles Palmer 1838-1873 (I don't think ever married)
Martin Charles Palmer seems to say he was married in the 1871 census.
And there is a marriage Stoke on Trent (St Peters) 1865
Martin Charles Palmer, 27, architect, Church st Hanley, father William Palmer a Miller
Mary Turner, 24, Stafford st, Shelton, father Charles Turner, Hotel Keeper
Added, witnesses Charles Turner and Ellen Dinah Turner
-
Frederick Palmer who married Ellen Johnson 1864 Hartshill. Frederick had 6 children including Ada Sarah who married Theophilus Hughes 1889 Newcastle.
The nephew, William Henry Palmer in 1871 is their child I think.
PALMER, WILLIAM HENRY JOHNSON
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 187
He married Anne Ellen Hayward 29 Sept 1885 he is a clerk, she is a Barmaid
-
Did you get the will of William Turner who died 1835 Lane End Staffordshire.
Listed under Diocese of Litchfield and Coventry.
It may list his surviving children
-
Did you get the will of William Turner who died 1835 Lane End Staffordshire.
Listed under Diocese of Litchfield and Coventry.
It may list his surviving children
It is an administration :-(
However.....Firmly bound are John Turner and John Palmer both of Lane End and William Palmer of Hanley
-
Sounds like a family connection
-
John (a Potter) is named as the son of William in the Administration documents.
-
Thankyou mckha489. I'll post this now before it gets too long.
Your first reply of John Turner aged 5. That fits in very well however where did you obtain the Age as my John Turner would have just turned 6.
2nd reply. That william Turner is the son b.16 Jun 1807 (I have no death) that married Charlotte Jones 11 Jun 1832. I have 7 births to them apparently all around Normacott with no idea of what happened to them.
The 1851 census age 42 comment is interesting as my math would have him at 44 but it depends at what time of year it was taken.
Martin Charles Palmer is the 5th born of William Palmer who married Sarah Turner 14th July 1831. Sarah is the 3rd born of Elizabeth Wright & Willian Turner There is a family plot in Hanley (lot A221). I have his father as a Timber Merchant and your 1871 census info has him as a Miller .... Hmmmm.
I don't know how to fit in your Mary Turner 24 information or Charles Turner. That may be interesting to chase up.
William Henry Palmer. This is also interesting and needs chasing up.
-
Thank you amondg.
No I do not have his will but from bits and pieces it appears that five survived to adulthood.
I have 6 children:
Mary Ann 1801-1878 never married
John 1803-1809 age 6
Sarah 1806-1881 married William Palmer 4 surviving children
William 1807-? married Charlotte Jones in 1823 Wolstanton
Elizabeth 1815-? Died young
Harriet 1818-1848
Apparently Mary Ann left money in her will for a memorial to be built for her two sisters that died young. I have never found a Memorial to them.
-
See the reply by Bumble Bee.
The bondsmen for the administration of the estate of William Turner 1836, the John Turner is named as his SON.
The John Palmer and William Palmer are relations of daughter Sarah.
Therefore the John who died age 5 is not yours.
ADDED
The age at death is a transcription on ancestry
-
William (1807) of William and Elizabeth died 20 December 1868 Normacott, the probate was not until 7 December 1877 and administration was given to his son Martin.
Charlotte died 1867 Normacott.
1871 census 4 of their children who are unmarried are living together in Normacott.
Elizabeth 38, John 30, Martin 24, Henry 20.
ADDED
Walter John had married Clara Cooke 1863, he died 4 January 1871 probate 31 January 1873 to Clara.
Guess she had to complete probate as Clara married her brother in law Henry Turner, Walter's youngest brother 10 March 1873 at St Michael, Stone. Her father listed as James Cooke.
1881 census Stone, the first 4 children William H 17, Lizzie 14, Mary A 12 and Walter J 10 are Walter's children. Fred 7, Harry 5 Minnie 1 are Henry's.
-
Thank you 'amondg'.
Yes his son "John" who I do not have in my tree applied for his estate which was valued at £100 (from memory).
So who was he???
I have a John listed as b.1803 d.1809 which was mentioned earlier in these replies. Have I missed another birth?
Looking at the 6 children there is a gap in the births from 1807 to 1815 so it is quite possible that there was another birth in that time frame. So if they lost a child named John in 1809 then it is likely that a new son would be called John. That was happening in a previous generation of the Turner line. Williams father and brother was named John. "If you Google Turner of Lane End" you will find that as potters they were well respected at the time.
Thanks for the death info on Charlotte. It is obvious that the families didn't move around much. I have been lucky enough to have obtained information by a researcher who was writing a book called "Staffordshire Women". Chapter 8 was all about Mary Ann Turner. Here is an extract from her research which she sent me which is where I obtained much of my information.
"They appear in the 1851 and 1861 censuses. In 1851 they just gave the enumerator their initials - daughter `E`, 18, a dressmaker, and sons `W`, 16, `W`, 14, `F`, 12, `J`, 9, `M`, 3 and `H`, 6 months. By 1861 we have the full names - Charlotte is the wife and the children are Elizabeth, William, Walter, John, Martin and Henry - all 10 years older of course. `F` seems to have died or been elsewhere. Father William was a potter, as were sons William and John. Walter was a `potter`s warehouseman` and Elizabeth was still a dressmaker. The others were `scholars`. As Mary Ann left £550 to Elizabeth and £50 to Martin, listing them as children of her brother William, I`m pretty sure that is the right household. What Mary Ann had against her other nephews I`m not sure - maybe she thought they were doing well enough not to need her money - or maybe she just didn`t like them much!