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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: JDC on Tuesday 21 September 21 01:34 BST (UK)
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Hi, I have been searching on Ancestry for the BMD documents for my Matthaus Coy and Catharina Strube family. They all seem to be transcribed (least the ones I have seen in Ancestry), but less than a quarter of them show the original documents. These dox are in German but how do we know if the originals have first been transcribed properly in German and then translated to English? Most of the documents I am after are are German pre-unificaction period for the Karlsruhe as well as Habitzheim areas. It is very hard to find out if the original document are not shown. I am unsure if others are having the same experience?
How can this be dealt with? Is there another site that can be tapped into - FamilySearch doesnt seem to have these documents online (least not yet).
Cheers, JDC
Any help with this will be appreciated.
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There is some online stuff here: https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/olf/struktur.php?bestand=12390
Familysearch seems to have a fair number of digitized records for the churches in Karlsruhe but it seems that you'd have to view them at one of the many family history centers (FHC). e.g. https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&query=%2Bsubject_id%3A357041%20%2Bavailability%3AOnline (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&query=%2Bsubject_id%3A357041%20%2Bavailability%3AOnline)
more useful info: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Baden,_German_Empire_Church_Records
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need more input, names, dates, religion, places
Dave
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Hi Dave,
At the moment I am attempting to see or get a copy of my 2g-grandfather, Charles Coy, in Canada (Franz Karl Coy in Germany) the original birth/baptism document Below is the transcription, but the origial image is not there.
Name: Franz Karl Coy
Event Type: Taufe (Baptism)
Birth Date: 1854
Baptism Date: 1854
Baptism Place: Karlsruhe, Baden (Baden-Württemberg), Deutschland (Germany)
Father: Matthäus Coy
Mother: Katharina Coy
Legitimacy: Ehelich
City or District: Karlsruhe
Author: Evangelische Kirche Karlsruhe (KrSt. Karlsruhe)
His father, Mathaus Coy's death transcribed death record info from 1856 is on on Ancestry, but again - no image. From my experience, Ancestry seems to have problems with transcribing, I have come across quite a few documents that are mis-transcribed. I cannot make any comment about their translation from German to English since I don't know the German language.
Again, any help is appreciated, thx.
JDC
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Thx treespirit for the links, I will check them out in a bit.
JDC
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Try www.archion.de (http://www.archion.de), the German website that provides access to digital images of hundreds of original parish registers; mostly Protestant, i.e. evangelisch. It's not free.
You'll probably need to look through the registers of the Karlsruhe Stadtgemeinde.
You will find the handwriting challenging, all the more so if you don't have a command of German.
Good luck anyway.
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HI
I may have found his birth record.
born 7 may 1854
father Matthäus Coy
get back to you later
Dave
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You presumably do not recall that back in 2017 Svenja provided a number of links including one to the parish records.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770874.9 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770874.9)
I've been going through the images and have found:
Marriage of Matthäus Coy and Katharina Strübe on 20 May 1850 http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218812-65 (http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218812-65)
Birth and baptism of Franz Coy on 7 May 1854 http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218816-22 (http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218816-22)
Death and burial of Matthäus Coy on 23 March 1856 http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218818-113 (http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218818-113)
I have transcribed the records, but haven't got around to the translations yet. I'm not 100% sure of the names of the various witnesses.
Matthäus was indeed from Habitzheim, the son of Ambrosius Coy and Margarethe Hebeisen.
Katharina was the illegitimate daughter of Christine Strübe.
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well done Justin
I also found the records on Archion.
I´ll leave this one to you. It makes no sense having 2 people working on it.
Dave
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Katharina had a brother, Carl Bernhard, born on 28 April 1829 (first entry on the page http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218802-95 (http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218802-95)), but died on 26.01.29 ... impossible.
He actually died on 26 October 1829 at the age of 6 months (last entry on the page http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218804-91 (http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/plink/?f=4-1218804-91)).
The handwriting on the death and burial entry is truly appalling. The vicar appears to have recorded the surname as Striebe and named the mother as the single Christine Striebe, daughter of the deceased J...licke Striebe.
For the life of me, I cannot decipher, or even guess, Christine's mother's name.
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seems to me like Jokalicke or Jodalicke.
Witnesses
1 Ludwig Wolf, Stadt??
2 Joseph Mark, Todtengräber
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Sorry Dave and Justin,
Sorry I havent replied earlier but for some reason I did not get notice of your replies and have not checked the post lately since I am in the middle of a move at the moment, I will do so as soonas I can , this may be after I move in a couple of weeks. I will definitely look things over when I get chances within the next couple of weeks. I apologize to both of you.
JDC
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Hello Everyone,
I have taken some time to look at the information all of you have found for me. This is wonderful. Yes I did attempt to look at the information that Svenja provided, but to be honest and unfortunately, I was a bit overwhelmed with German researching at that time being a newbie at it. I am still that way but not as bad - I am still having trouble navigating the German sites :-( I don't read or speak German at all unfortunately and even when some of it it is tranlated into English I still find it difficult. I have attempted to get someone to help translate the few document I knew were my ancestors but the people I approached to translate the german documents to english said the documents were old German and that they were unable to translate for me. Obviously I approached the wrong people :-(
If you are still willing to translate the documents you found Justin I would very appreciative to get a copy.
Time to go back to packing - thank youeveryone,
JDC
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Hi all,
Back again, just to let you know, I have Charles Coy as having 8 siblings. the two oldest ones born before Katherina married Matthaus. I wonder if she was married previously? The last child was born just prior to Matthaus' death.
JDC
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Hello JDC,
Sorry that I missed your replies a month ago. I should have received automatic notifications of any replies to this topic.
Older German texts can be very challenging, but entries in parish registers generally have the same sort of wording that you would encounter in registers written in English. Google translate does a reasonable job of translating such short texts, although the translation of old titles and occupations generally requires further research.
With German ancestry, I can only encourage you to grapple with some rudimentary German ... that's part of the fun of genealogy.
I have had to split the translations of the records into two files to avoid exceeding the 500 kB file size limit.
The Coy family of Habitzheim appear to have been Catholics. The baptisms of Matthäus' two younger brothers and the baptisms and marriage of his parents were recorded in the Catholic parish registers.
The Landesarchiv Baden-Württemberg holds a number of records in the period 1766 to 1781 for an older Ambrosius Coy. This Ambrosius was described as a Hofbeständer or Hofbauer of Habitzheim, which I believe was essentially a farm or estate manager/administrator.
To be continued ...
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I've stumbled across a considerable amount of information covering several generations of the Coy family in Habitzheim.
The attached pedigree contains many links to the numerous sources, unfortunately in German. But if you right click in the browser, you can translate the pages into understandable English.
Ambrosius Coy, c1704-1779, was most likely the son or grandson of Catholic settlers from the Spanish Netherlands, who had been called to repopulate Habitzheim after the devastation of the 30 Years' War.
Quoting from the short description of the Familienbuch Habitzheim, 'After changing ownership, the estate was the seat of the Counts [von Löwenstein] themselves at the beginning of the 16th century, after which it was officials and estate managers such as Ambrosius Coy who shaped the estate and the place.'
Viel Spaß