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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: iregurl on Thursday 16 September 21 00:20 BST (UK)
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I've hit a brick wall in my Watson family research. Many of us thought that this James Watson was the son of Dr. James Watson and Elizabeth Turnbull of Kelso, Roxburghshire, but their son was born in 1793 and couldn't be in the militia or married in 1800.
I'm trying to confirm where he was born and who his parents are. This is the information I have been able to confirm so far.
James Watson was born on 1777, in the Scottish Borders.
He married Anne Agnes Duncan on April 13, 1800, in Cupar, Fife.
They had eight children in 16 years.
Occupation in 1800 was Weaver
Occupation in 1804 was Stone Mason.
Occupation on Death Record was Surgeon
They had moved to Kelso, Roxburghshire by 1806.
They then moved to the Galashiels, Selkirkshire by 1818.
They then moved to Jedburgh, Roxburghshire sometime between 1818 and 1838
He was in the Cupar Militia. Sergt. July 2, 1800 Couper Volunteers/ Sargent Major
By 1809 he was a member of the Roxburghshire Local Militia
By 1813 he was in the Kelso Militia.
He died on December 16, 1838, in Jedburgh, Roxburghshire, Scotland, at the age of 61, and was buried at Jedburgh Abbey.
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List of their children
James Watson
1802–1804
James Rutherford Watson
1804–1851
Margaret Watson
1806–
William Watson
1809–1881
Andrew Watson
1813–1867
Adam Watson
1816–1884
Richard L Watson
1818–
Alexander Watson
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(You've typo'd his year of birth in your thread title :) )
Does he never get more specific than "Borders"? According to Google, the Borders counties are Berwick, Peebles, Roxburgh and Selkirk. Of those, I'm only getting one result- James WATSON ch 19/2/1776 son of James, parish of Kilbucho, Peebles. Have you checked this one out?
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(You've typo'd his year of birth in your thread title :) )
Does he never get more specific than "Borders"? According to Google, the Borders counties are Berwick, Peebles, Roxburgh and Selkirk. Of those, I'm only getting one result- James WATSON ch 19/2/1776 son of James, parish of Kilbucho, Peebles. Have you checked this one out?
Thanks, it's been a long day. ::)
On his marriage record in 1800 it says that he was of that parish, but he only had to live there 3 weeks for that to be recorded.
I haven't seen the one in Peebles. I'll take a look and see if he fits in or not. Thanks!
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This is the link to his headstone with the inscription:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/80041630/james-watson
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Much doesn't seem right besides Scottish Borders...
Weaver,
Mason,
Surgeon
These are trades requiring a specific skillset and training and takes years. One does not jump from one to the other and end up becoming a Surgeon (which requires a much higher education than the others).
The Bann is likely correct. If it states he is of this Parish he was the son James Watson (a wright) and Margaret Malcom and he was born in Cupar in 1777. If he wasn't born in Cupar and only there for 3 weeks it would say he was from the Parish of ???
Don
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Much doesn't seem right besides Scottish Borders...
Weaver,
Mason,
Surgeon
These are trades requiring a specific skillset and training and takes years. One does not jump from one to the other and end up becoming a Surgeon (which requires a much higher education than the others).
The Bann is likely correct. If it states he is of this Parish he was the son James Watson (a wright) and Margaret Malcom and he was born in Cupar in 1777. If he wasn't born in Cupar and only there for 3 weeks it would say he was from the Parish of ???
Don
The occupation of Surgeon is listed on his death certificate according to FindMyPast. The Weaver and the Mason came from other sources that aren't official, so probably aren't true. His children did go into weaving.
I don't know if his parents are James Watson and Margaret Malcolm, as that's not been confirmed and Cupar isn't within the Scottish Borders. Also, there is is no marriage record for them.
His regimental records from 1804-1807 with the 3rd Foot Soldiers has his birth year as 1780.
There has been a lot of confusion about my 5x great-grandfather's origins.
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The occupation of Surgeon is listed on his death certificate according to FindMyPast.
There is no death certificate as this was before registration. There is only the church record of his death / burial - available on Scotlands People.
WATSON JAMES ----- M 16/12/1838 792/ 70 540 Jedburgh
The information it gives is:
16 Dec 1838
WATSON, James – late Serjent Major, (then 2 initials which I can't decipher)
age 64 disease -liver complaint.
That puts his birth about 1774.
On the marriage record from Cupar 1800, it says:
James Watson Sergt of Cupar Volunteers
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The occupation of Surgeon is listed on his death certificate according to FindMyPast.
There is no death certificate as this was before registration. There is only the church record of his death / burial - available on Scotlands People.
WATSON JAMES ----- M 16/12/1838 792/ 70 540 Jedburgh
The information it gives is:
16 Dec 1838
WATSON, James – late Serjent Major, (then 2 initials which I can't decipher)
age 64 disease -liver complaint.
That puts his birth about 1774.
On the marriage record from Cupar 1800, it says:
James Watson Sergt of Cupar Volunteers
First name(s) James
Last name Watson
Occupation Surgeon
Birth year 1774
Age 64
Death year -
Burial year 1838
Burial date 16 Dec 1838
Place Jedburgh
County Roxburghshire
Country -
Page 19
Archive reference OPR 792/7
Year Range 1820-1854
Item 1
Record set Scotland, Parish Deaths & Burials 1564-2017
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from Great Britain, Scotland
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The occupation of Surgeon is listed on his death certificate according to FindMyPast.
(then 2 initials which I can't decipher)
It looks like L. M. to me... maybe Local Malitia?? ???
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WATSON JAMES ----- M 16/12/1838 792/ 70 540 Jedburgh.
It is a transcription error. It is NOT surgeon. It is Serjent Major.
Yes possibly L M “?something militia”
Always best to look at the original.
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List of their children
James Watson
1802–1804
James Rutherford Watson
1804–1851
Margaret Watson
1806–
William Watson
1809–1881
Andrew Watson
1813–1867
Adam Watson
1816–1884
Richard L Watson
1818–
Alexander Watson
There appear to be some questions around births / deaths and names of children. Have you checked all this on Scotlands People? https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records
• James Watson b.1802 Cupar; d 1851 according to grave inscription.
• John Rutherford Watson b. 1804 Kelso; d. 1851? Where is Burial record?
• Margaret Watson b. 1806 Kelso; died age 2 according to grave inscription.
• William Watson b.1809 Kelso; d 1881 Jedburgh
• Andrew Watson b.1813 Kelso; d. 1867 Jedburgh (On his birth his father is named as Sergeant of Roxburgh Militia.)
• Adam Watson b. 1816-1884 - No OPR of birth. Adam who died in 1884 was 34 years old – he is the son of Andrew Watson and Helen Wark
• Richard L Watson b 1818 – No OPR of birth Where does this name come from?
• Alexander Watson - No OPR of birth. Where does this name come from?
• Un-named Watson Child died in Jedburgh 15/03/1828
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The Watson sons – both James 1802-1851 and Andrew 1813-1867 were Handloom Woollen Weavers
William 1809-1881 was a Founder / Iron moulder.
I think the surname Rutherford might be significant to the Watson family, and worth investigating. There was a son John Rutherford Watson born 1804; and the oldest son James Watson who married Ann Baird in 1832, named their first daughter Rutherford b.1835.
So far I have not found a plausible connection for Watson and Rutherford – but hopefully someone else may see something I am missing. Of course the name may come through the Duncan side of the family. You would need to explore those names a bit more. :)
Incidentally, you may find this link useful
https://www.scan.org.uk/researchrtools/lieutenancy.htm
I have not looked in detail, but a quick look under Kelso comes up with #125 ‘William Watson – wright – with Neil & brother”, and also #123 Robert Watson.
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I went back to my notes and found that Anne Duncan sometimes went by Agnes Duncan when the family lived in Kelso. This is the name she used on her daughter Margaret's birth record in 1806. The daughter that's listed on the grave marker in Jedburgh Abbey Cemetary. It's the name used on the birth records for:
John Rutherford Watson and Margaret Watson.
P.S. There is no marriage record for a James Watson and Agnes Duncan in Scotland between 1780 and 1820.
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P.S. There is no marriage record for a James Watson and Agnes Duncan in Scotland between 1780 and 1820.
This is the OPR marriage record for James Watson and Anne (Agnes) Duncan
WATSON JAMES ANNE DUNCAN/FR800 (FR800)
13/04/1800 420/ 30 167 Cupar
On this marriage record James is described as “Sergt of Cupar Volunteers”
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This is the OPR of Anne Duncan’s birth / baptism, and then follows her siblings births
DUNCAN ANNE ANDREW DUNCAN/ANN SIVIS F
09/12/1773 420/ 20 268 Cupar
DUNCAN JAMES ANDREW DUNCAN/ANN CAVES M
21/07/1771 420/ 20 246 Cupar
DUNCAN MARY ANDREW DUNCAN/ANNE SEVES F
31/12/1775 420/ 20 280 Cupar
DUNCAN GEORGE ANDREW DUNCAN/ANNE CIVES FR720 (FR720) M
01/11/1778 420/ 30 10 Cupar
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P.S. There is no marriage record for a James Watson and Agnes Duncan in Scotland between 1780 and 1820.
This is the OPR marriage record for James Watson and Anne (Agnes) Duncan
WATSON JAMES ANNE DUNCAN/FR800 (FR800)
13/04/1800 420/ 30 167 Cupar
On this marriage record James is described as “Sergt of Cupar Volunteers”
Yes, that's the marriage I have listed in my original post. My point is that she went by both names on the birth records of their children and it wasn't a different couple who were the parents.
But getting back to the point of this topic.... Is there any way to verify where James Watson b. 1774 or 1777 was born and who his parent's are?
Thanks!
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My point is that she went by both names on the birth records of their children
The names Agnes and Ann(e) are quite often interchanged.
My hypothesis is that when this occurs, the person in question was generally known as Nancy, which is a diminutive of both Ann(e) and Agnes. The clerk, hearing that the mother was Nancy Duncan, made an assumption about her formal given name being Ann(e) or being Agnes and wrote it down accordingly.
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On his marriage record in 1800 it says that he was of that parish, but he only had to live there 3 weeks for that to be recorded.
Where did you get that idea from?
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There were 11 James Watson's baptized in Scotland in 1777
There were 14 James Watson's baptized in Scotland in 1774
There will be several born who are not baptized therefore no records; and there will be many other records lost. And then, he could be from Northern England which opens up a larger can of worms.
A Sergeant Major was a full time profession they did not hold another job. The only time would be if he lost this position or if the Militia was disbanded and there was no other position in another Militia available.
The Fife Militia was not disbanded during this period, he couldn't "quit" and run off to Roxborough without obtaining a release. And...there was no such thing as the Kelso Militia. Kelso is in Roxborough.
James born in 1802 was the son of a Weaver not a Sergeant Major. Then in Feb 1803 a newborn child was buried a newborn child and an Anne died in April of the same year. https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
If you really want to know who Sergeant Major James Watson was you need to acquire his records with the Roxborough Militia. Since many records for the Militia are held (if they exist), locally I would suggest you contact http://www.bordersfhs.org.uk
Don
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And at the risk of being picky, you'll get on better if you spell it Roxburgh not Roxborough.
'-borough' is the English spelling; in Scotland it's always '-burgh' - Edinburgh, Helensburgh, Fraserburgh, Maryburgh, Roxburgh ....
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It's ok Forfarian, I'm 6-5" and have big shoulders. I was reading the reports from the Fornication Department of the Cupar Presbytery looking for Watson's but found too many relatives and acquired a headache.
But then in 1800 I found a John Watson who was accused as being the father of a child by an unnamed female claiming that he, her servant did this to her. My mind was envisioning raised eyebrows by the Committee and the smirk on the accused face as he instantly climbed the ladder out of servitude. And then I pressed send.
So forgive me for the typo's and being shire less. I promise I will try harder next time.
Don
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A Sergeant Major was a full time profession they did not hold another job. The only time would be if he lost this position or if the Militia was disbanded and there was no other position in another Militia available.
The Fife Militia was not disbanded during this period, he couldn't "quit" and run off to Roxborough without obtaining a release. And...there was no such thing as the Kelso Militia. Kelso is in Roxborough.
James born in 1802 was the son of a Weaver not a Sergeant Major. Then in Feb 1803 a newborn child was buried a newborn child and an Anne died in April of the same year. https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
If you really want to know who Sergeant Major James Watson was you need to acquire his records with the Roxborough Militia. Since many records for the Militia are held (if they exist), locally I would suggest you contact http://www.bordersfhs.org.uk
Don
Hi Don,
On the Proclamation of James Watson and Anne Duncan marriage, his occupation is listed as Sargent of "Cupar Volunteers"
I finally had time to really take a look at the birth records of James and Anne's children.
In 1802, James was listed as a Weaver on the baptism of James
In 1804 his occupation was not listed on the baptism of John Rutherford
In 1806 his occupation was not listed on the baptism of Margaret
In 1809 his occupation was Sargent Major in the Roxburh Local Militia on the baptism of William
In 1814 his occupation was listed as Sargent in the Roxburgh Local Militia on the baptism of Andrew
Considering the Napoleonic War was from 1803 to 1815, I'm assuming maybe he had left the Cupar Militia, but later either volunteered or was recalled when they needed more men to strengthen the army.
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I just wanted to share a bit about breaking through this brick wall.
I have some exciting news to share! Today, I was looking through the member resources of the Fife Family History Society, and I came across a paper written by David Thomson called Loyal Tay Fencibles. Within this paper, he shares the people who enlisted in this Militia group from Fife.
I am happy to share that I found my ancestor, Sergeant Major James Watson, who signed up when he was 17 years old in 1794. It listed his place of birth. The first hard evidence of a specific location where he was born. It confirms he was born in 1777 in Cupar, Fife.
(I've attached the extract below.)
This lines up with his parents being James Watson and Margaret Malcom, as many of us have hypothesized for years.
I also found that they had two more children:
John Watson b. 12 Nov 1775 in Cupar.
William Watson b. 13 Apr 1783 in Cupar.
James Watson is the middle son b. 17 Aug 1777 in Cupar.
It is thrilling to finally have this confirmation, and I look forward to tracing the Watsons of Jedburgh family line back another generation.