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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: stewpot72 on Friday 10 September 21 15:31 BST (UK)
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I am trying to verify whether or not my GGGrandfather was on the ship Royal Charter when it sank in 1859. I have contacted National Archives about crew lists (long story) but in the meantime wondered if it is possible to trace the dates when ships left port. I know the ship left Melbourne in August 1859 but I would like to find the embarkation date when it left Liverpool beforehand. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
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I researched a doctor who had been surgeon on the Royal Charter on previous voyages and testified for the inquiry. Here are a few extracts-
Royal Charter – built at Sandycroft ironworks on the River Dee, in Flintshire, and was launched in 1855. The firm which had ordered her, Charles Moore & Co., of Liverpool, sold her while she was still under construction to another Liverpool shipping business, Gibbs, Bright & co.
"Having been surgeon of the unfortunate vessel during four voyages from Liverpool to Australia and back, I feel myself called upon to pen? a few reminiscences of the ill-fated ship and her late officers who are now no more."
The ship had been sailing for Liverpool from Melbourne, Australia, with a cargo of gold and over 400 passengers on-board when she was caught in a great storm and blown onto the rocks. The Royal Charter was an iron hulled hybrid steam ship over 300ft long.
Lots in British & Australian newspapers of the time. Like this article-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65729246?searchTerm=%22Royal%20Charter%22
"The steamship Royal Charter arrived in Hobson's Bay last evening, after a passage of sixty-four days from Liverpool."
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Putting together listings in English and Australian newspapers, it looks as though the Royal Charter sailed from Liverpool on 21 May 1859 and arrived at Port Phillip Heads (near Melbourne) on 22 July 1859.
Drosybont
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The traditional way of doing it is by reference to Lloyd’s List - I remember following my grandfathers travels some years ago.
If things are the same now as then, you’ll first need to find a convenient archive which holds copies of it and you might also need to refer to ships by their official number rather than name.
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Many thanks for the guidance.
Drosybont, May 21st looks like the right date as it fits with the ship sinking in October on the return from Australia. Could you tell me which newspaper you found this in? I have a subscription to British Newspapers online and I might be able to look up the details.
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Eureka! Many thanks again. I found a record of the ship sailing from Liverpool in the Daily Post on May 21st
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Hi,
From replies to your previous posts, you know that a Patrick Doyle died on the Royal Charter in 1859.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=851470.0
He had signed up 16.5.1859 is recorded as having died on the Royal Charter £12.9s 6d was paid out (presumable to his wife) on the 11th November 1859.
The Royal Charter left Liverpool 21.5.1859.
So do you think this is not the correct Patrick Doyle, or are you trying to discover what other ships he may have worked on?
Spendlove
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I am looking for anything that would help confirm that it is my relative who was on the ship. Everything points to it being him, including the date he sailed and the birth date of his youngest son (born November 1859), but it's quite a common name so any supporting info would be really useful.
Drosybont, Going back to the sailing dates, how did you find them? I had looked at the British Newspapers online but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
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I worked back through the dates, using Royal Charter as the search term, "Royal Charter" on Trove. You said the Royal Charter left Melbourne in August 1859, so I looked in newspapers on Trove for its arrival there. Once I had that I focused the UK search around the beginning of April and the last couple of weeks of May. I looked specifically in Liverpool papers, assuming those were most likely to give accurate details about the sailing. To make it a bit easier by reducing the number of results I selected 'Articles'.
Drosybont
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Hi,
The Royal Charter, normally sailed from Liverpool on the 15th of the month. However May 1859
The sailing was not until 21st. May.
Using FindMyPast
Norwich Mercury 18th May 1859, states
AUSTRALIAN MAIL
Owing to the none arrival of the overland mail, the sailing of the magnificent Steam Clipper “Royal Charter”, has been postponed till Saturday 21st May.
If you have access to British Newspaper Archive, similar notices appear in
Buckinghamshire Advertiser and free press
Sligo Chronicle
Irish Times
And many others.
Think this confirms date of sailing from Liverpool.
Spendlove
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Many thanks to everyone for your help :-)
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I've extensively tried plotting routes and times and found it very difficult as it is hard to tell how current any information is. Adverts for ships 'about to sail' can be weeks in advance. Reports of shipping contact at sea can be be weeks out of date, so be warned.
Zaph
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You imply that your communications with TNA are proving to be somewhat problematic.
"I am trying to verify whether or not my GGGrandfather was on the ship Royal Charter when it sank in 1859. I have contacted National Archives about crew lists (long story)"
There were three British ships around in 1859 with the name ROYAL CHARTER.
Crew Agreement/Lists are catalogued by TNA by the vessels unique Official Number.
The Official number of the Liverpool registered ship you are concerned with is 1355.
If it has survived her last Crew Agreement for 1859 should be in this piece.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_cr=BT98%2F5574
Be advised that the person/s you are dealing with at TNA, are in all probability general research assistants with little or no knowledge of maritime matters. You would be best served attending Kew yourself to view the document. If this is not possible be sure to ask for the last Crew Agreement /list. of ROYAL CHARTER official number 1355.
Please let us know if this approach is successfull.
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Many thanks. I sent the info to TNA from your earlier post and asked if the crew list would just be a list of names or would there be other details that would help identify individuals. I haven’t had a reply despite asking 3 times so the manager is ringing me tomorrow. I will keep you posted.
Thank you again for helping me with this.
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PS. I live on the Wirral so a trip to TNA would be too expensive, much as I would love to go.
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At long last I got the information I needed from the National Archives (dreadful service).
Patrick Doyle sailed on the Royal Charter from Liverpool to Melbourne, leaving port in early May 1859. He was undoubtedly my great great grandfather as his age and place of birth match the other records I have.
The documents TNA sent me show that this was his first, and only, voyage, as he was drowned during the return voyage in the notorious storm off Anglesey in October when he was nearly home, having left Melbourne on August 18th.
He was employed as a Fireman, which I believe means he was what we now refer to as a Stoker, on a wage of £4.10.0d per month. As he was away for more than 5 months I am puzzled about his final wage - £12.9.6d
Many thanks to everyone for their help with this search.
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Hi Stewpot72,
So pleased you have written evidence that it was your GG Grandfather.
Spendlove
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Hi stewpot72,
I saw this today whilst having a holiday walk in Moelfre, Anglesey and thought of your post.
You may have visited already as you live quite close but here we are.
Heywood
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You wrote
"He was employed as a Fireman, which I believe means he was what we now refer to as a Stoker, on a wage of £4.10.0d per month. As he was away for more than 5 months I am puzzled about his final wage - £12.9.6d"
It could be down to several cause's but the most likely is he drew a "Sub" to be used for a run/s ashore. He purchased essential items of clothing and other gear from the ships store. He made an allotment to be paid to a person/s onshore usually a family member, wife, mother etc.
It is always "Fireman" in MN parlance. Stoker was a RN rank.
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Dear Heywood that is so kind of you, thank you. We went to Moelfre a few weeks ago and found a memorial on the headland and lots of memorial stones and graves in St Gallgo church graveyard. Where is the memorial you found? We are hoping to go back when the weather picks up. Thank you again for your thoughtful gesture.
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It is in front of the Lifeboat shop.
As soon as I saw it I recalled your search so one of my family took the photo.
It was a glorious day today and so calm but it would seem that several tragedies have occurred in the area.
Best wishes for Christmas. :)