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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: islay 1 on Thursday 26 August 21 17:26 BST (UK)
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Thank you for reading this. I am most confused about a marriage certificate for my grandfather's sister, and wonder if anyone can help me.
She was Mary Anne Hervey, born 1869 Kirkmichael, although the family lived in Crosshill. Her father was Frederick Hervey and mother Mary Jane Caldwell. The family can easily be found on census returns for 1870 and 1880, and in 1891 Mary is in Ayr as a domestic servant. She marries in 1894, again in Ayr. Here is my puzzle.
She weds a John Duan, pit sinker, his parents given as James Duan and Ellen Mcglinn. This is undoubtedly the correct Mary Hervey's marriage, as both her sister and future brother in law are correctly named as witnesses, and her parents are correctly documented, including her father's job and mother's maiden name.
However, she is named as Mary Duan - if I correctly read the writing which is a little unclear - spinster. Surely she would have been Mary Anne Hervey if she was a spinster? Could it be a mistake and her new married name was put on the certificate instead of her maiden name?
I cannot see where Mary Anne and John Duan lived thereafter. His brother James was also a pit sinker and married in 1896 giving Benquatt, Dalmellington as his home, but I find no sign of his brother or their parents anywhere.
Ancestry further muddy the waters by suggesting that Mary Anne married a John Dalton in 1899 in Liverpool, her place of birth given as Crosshill in 1870, but even if she had been widowed shortly after her marriage to John Duan she would not have been recorded as Mary Anne Hervey, which was her maiden name. I think this must be another Mary Anne, but can easily stand corrected!
I would love to know what happened to Mary Anne Hervey and the rest of her story, but am struggling through a lack of information about her next years, or even anything about John Duan himself( in case another family member should know more about where they lived.) My grandfather died before I was born or he could have been a great help here!
Thank you for reading this. Any help would be much appreciated. Islay.
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The marriage has been listed twice on Scotlands people
DUAN, JOHN
HARVEY, MARY ANN
1894
578/ 88
Ayr
DUAN, JOHN
DUAN, MARY ANN
1894
578/ 88
Ayr
Was it possible that they were living together prior to their marriage and she was known as Mary Ann Duan
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Could it be that the surname is actually Dunn and not Duan?
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Ancestry further muddy the waters by suggesting that Mary Anne married a John Dalton in 1899 in Liverpool, her place of birth given as Crosshill in 1870, but even if she had been widowed shortly after her marriage to John Duan she would not have been recorded as Mary Anne Hervey, which was her maiden name. I think this must be another Mary Anne, but can easily stand corrected!
Marriage index from Lancashire BMD listed as Harvey
DALTON John
HARVEY Mary A 1899 Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended
Liverpool REG_LP/241/30
and listed as Hervey on freebmd
Marriage Sep qtr 1899
Dalton John
HERVEY Mary Ann
Liverpool 8b 243
ADDED They are in West Derby in 1901 - Mary Ann age 31 born Scotland, daughter May Beatrice
DALTON, MAY BEATRICE Mothers maiden surname HARVEY
GRO Reference: 1900 June Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 262
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However, she is named as Mary Duan - if I correctly read the writing which is a little unclear - spinster. Surely she would have been Mary Anne Hervey if she was a spinster? Could it be a mistake and her new married name was put on the certificate instead of her maiden name?
Looks like it.
Ancestry further muddy the waters by suggesting that Mary Anne married a John Dalton in 1899 in Liverpool, her place of birth given as Crosshill in 1870, but even if she had been widowed shortly after her marriage to John Duan she would not have been recorded as Mary Anne Hervey, which was her maiden name. I think this must be another Mary Anne, but can easily stand corrected!
I agree. (If she had remarried in Scotland she should have been indexed by both her maiden name and her first married name.)
Never believe anything you find on Ancestry or similar commercial web sites unless it's an image of an original record, and especially do not trust anything from a tree submitted to any of them. See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
You could get a copy of the marriage certificate of John Dalton and Mary Ann Hervey in 1899 and see what her father's name and occupation were. Sadly, an English marriage certificate does not mention the couple's mothers. Get it from https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ - beware of agents who will offer to get certificates for you at twice or three times the price (currently £7 for a .pdf copy).
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You cannot get a PDF of a marriage from the GRO
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All 3 of the children born to John Dalton who married in Liverpool have mothers maiden surname as HARVEY
DALTON, MAY BEATRICE mmn HARVEY
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 262
DALTON, ELIZABETH ELLEN mmn HARVEY
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 277
DALTON, CAROLINE WINIFRED mmn HARVEY
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 260
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You cannot get a PDF of a marriage from the GRO
. Ah. I see that now that you have drawn my attention to it, but it's not immediately obvious (to me, at any rate) at first.
So it has to be a certificate, cost £11. Just over seven times the cost of a Scottish certificate.
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Hi islay 1
You mention that you have access to Ancestry. Have you checked the 1939 register to see what birth date Mary Ann Dalton gives? You will find it is a match with this date www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5Q-GQ4
You are on the right track I would say with her second marriage to John Dalton in 1899. The names of Mary Jane and Frederick have also been used for her children. To be completely certain, a look at the original cert for the 1899 marriage would let you do that.
As to what happened with John Duan :-\
Monica
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Mary Anne Harvey and John Dalton's marriage in 1899 took place on 14 July 1899 at St Peter's Priory, Liverpool, the marriage can be found on Ancestry in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933 collection. Mary Ann's father's name is given as Frederick Harvey, unfortunately the Catholic marriage registers don't record as much information as the Church of England marriage registers, so there is no information on Mary Anne's age or her father's occupation.
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Thank you all so much for the time and effort you have put into helping me. The family were all strong Church of Scotland people, so Mary Ann marrying again, only 5 years after her marriage with John Duan in a Scottish church, to someone in a Catholic church in England, is surprising, especially as this man is a John too and with a surname starting and ending with identical letters D and N, but there are too many coincidences with names, dates etc there to discount the idea.
I will reread all your replies and look up the suggestions you have made for further research. Thank you again, very much. Best wishes, Islay
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CATHERINE Duan Birth 1 Sep 1867 Greenock, Renfrewshire
Parents James Duan and Ellen McGlinn
(Familysearch.Org)
Maybe Catherine in 1881 in Greenock?
Catherine Bonnan 48 Head
Berla Krise 11 Daughter
Rose Krise 14 Daughter
Alex Bonnan 10 Son
Cath Dunn 3 Boarder****
Trish :)