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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: David Hankey on Thursday 26 August 21 11:19 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Thursday 26 August 21 11:19 BST (UK)

Just wondered if anyone has connections to the above who were married at St Nicholas, Church Stoke on 30th June 1853.  I understand Mary 1824-1900 was the daughter of Edward 1803-1887 & Mary (unknown maiden name) born 1805 at Caersws.

Matthew 1824-1887 came from Kington, Herefordshire and was a Inland Revenue Clerk. Matthew & Mary's daughter, Caroline 1854-1892 is my maternal great grandmother. She married John Wait at Welshpool in 1883.

I am looking to go back further from Edward & Mary and any information would be greatly appreciated, David.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Thursday 26 August 21 14:36 BST (UK)

Only marriage record showing at Churchstoke:

Edward PRICE, bachelor and Mary Jones, spinster, both otp, married after Banns 2 May 1823.  Edward signed Edward PRYCE, Mary made her mark.  Witnesses Peter PRYCE and Thos. Jones

Mary, daughter of Edward Price, farmer of Caeprior, and Mary his wife bpt 16th August 1824 at Churchstoke

Caeprior was a 75 acre (approx.) farm just north of Churchstoke towards Chirbury.  The land owner was the Earl of Powys

Other children of Edward Price, farmer of Caeprior, Churchstoke and Mary, his wife.  Baptised at Churchstoke:

Elizabeth 3 March 1826
Hester 22 April 1828
Jane 23 Dec 1829

added:

Jane Price, an infant, died at Caeprior 1830.  Buried 15 Feb at Churchstoke

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Thursday 26 August 21 15:07 BST (UK)

That's great and confirms this is my ancestry. If you find anything else such as the 1841 Census detail I would be very grateful, David

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: DCB on Thursday 26 August 21 16:00 BST (UK)

1841 Census
Cae Prior, Church Stoke, Montgomeryshire
Edward Pryce Male 50 1791 Farmer
Mary Pryce Female 50 1791
Mary Pryce Female 16 1825
Elizabeth Pryce Female 15 1826
Esther Pryce Female 13 1828

David

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Thursday 26 August 21 16:22 BST (UK)

Well spotted, David.  I couldn't find that census anywhere!

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Thursday 26 August 21 17:01 BST (UK)

Excellent find, David. Many thanks for your help.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Thursday 26 August 21 17:43 BST (UK)

Churchstoke dipped in and out of England overtime, that’s why some of the records show in Shropshire with others in Montgomeryshire.

1851 census, England
Capria (Caeprior?), Rhiston, Shropshire
Edward Price 62 Farmer of 92 acres, born Treg?? Montgomeryshire
Mary Price 60 born Caersws
Elizabeth Price 25 Dressmaker, born Churchstoke, Salop
Esther Price 23 farmer’s daughter born Churchstoke, Salop
Henry Davies 13 farm servant born ditto
----------------------

1861 census Churchstoke, Shropshire, England
Rhiston
Edward Pryce 74 farmer born Tregynon, Montgomeryshire
Mary Price 72 born Caersws
Esther Price 30 born Churchstoke, Salop
William Tailor 16, carter on farm born Churchstoke, Salop
-----------------------

1871 census Bacheldre & Mellington
Bacheldre
Mary Price 80, widowed retired farmer, born Caersws
Esther Price 43, sister (?) unmarried dressmaker, born Churchstoke
Roger Reynolds 45, farm bailiff
Henry Davies, 17 Waggoner
Sarah Whittingham 17, gen servant

In 1881 Bacheldre was taken over by Elizabeth Owen, widow aged 55.  Esther, her sister is still there

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Thursday 26 August 21 21:58 BST (UK)

Many, many thanks, Br1gau. You are a star.

The ? mark on the 1871 Census next to Esther is the fact that she was the daughter of Mary and not her sister. Esther never married and died in 1909 at Bacheldre. On the 1881 Census she, as you quite rightly, living at Bacheldre with her widowed sister, Elizabeth Owen and her children.

Again, many thanks for all your help and assistance, David

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: DCB on Friday 27 August 21 09:44 BST (UK)

Going by the censuses, this might be Edward's baptism:-

Edward Price, son of Edward and Elizabeth, baptised on 27th January 1788 at Tregynon.

Also Price or Pryce:-
Elizabeth on 4th May 1782,
John on 4th May 1784
Richard on 11th February 1786
Mary on 19th July 1790
Jane on 6th July 1794, .

Possible marriage: Edward Pryce and Elizabeth Andrew on 17th January 1780

David

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Friday 27 August 21 10:26 BST (UK)

Hi David and thank you for this, however, I think this maybe a different Edward as I have a birth/christening date for him as 21st December 1803 at Tregynon.

The baptism year of 1788 would have made him 35 years old at the time of his marriage which I think highly unlikely.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 27 August 21 11:34 BST (UK)

A marriage at age 35 isn’t unreasonable and could also explain why Edward and Mary had just four children.

Taking the three census returns 1841 – 1861 gives an average birth year for Edward of 1789.  Doing the same for Mary over four censuses gives her an average birth year of 1790.  If as you say, Edward was born in 1803 then either he married Mary, 13 years his senior or four census returns were consistently 13 – 14 years in error.

Baptism showing for Edward Price on 21 Dec 1803, is this the one you looked at?
St Nicholas, Hereford and at Weybridge, Hereford (non-conformist)  Parents John and Margaret

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 27 August 21 12:04 BST (UK)

Edward Pryce, Bacheldre buried 13th May at St Nicholas, Churchstoke

Memorial Inscription at St Nicholas.  Sandstone headstone (worn)

In
affectionate remembrance
of
Edward PRYCE
of Caeprior
who died May 7th. 1867
aged 78 years.
also Mary his wife
who died January 27th 1873
aged 83 years.
"Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord."
also of Esther, their daughter,
who died May 1st. 1909,
aged 81 years.
To die is gain.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 27 August 21 12:13 BST (UK)

Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Churchstoke, marble tablet

In affectionate remembrance
of the Bacheldre Family.
Richard OWEN.
died Nov. 27th. 1859. aged 53.
Elizabeth OWEN.
died March 28th. 1893. aged 67.
Edward PRYCE.
died May 7th. 1867. aged 78.
Mary PRYCE.
died Jan. 27th. 1873. aged 83.
Esther PRYCE.
died May 1st. 1909. aged 81.
Elizabeth OWEN.
died Jan. 16th. 1943. aged 85.
Thomas OWEN.
died Oct. 13th. 1945. aged 90.
Thomas William OWEN.
died Oct. 12th. 1950. aged 48.
In sure and certain hope of eternal life.
Margaret Annie (Peggy) OWEN
died Sept. 4th. 1997, aged 97.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Friday 27 August 21 12:35 BST (UK)

I see and understand what you are saying and thank you again for this insight. I erroneously assumed that being 35 years old would not fit as although not completely unusual I have found it wasn't common. We all know the ages on the early Censuses tended to be rounded up and somewhat inaccurate but obviously the MI makes all the difference. Thank you and David again.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Friday 27 August 21 12:38 BST (UK)

Hi Br1gau, whilst I was replying I see you have given more details of the Owen family who were linked to my Pryce family via the marriage of Elizabeth Pryce who married Richard Owen.

Thank you most sincerely for this additional information, David

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Friday 27 August 21 13:28 BST (UK)

I understand the chapel closed some years ago. Do you know would this be just a commemorative plaque or were these people buried there? Would the marble tablet have been saved?

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 27 August 21 17:38 BST (UK)

The two MIs came from f m p, transcribed from a series of booklets compiled by the Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society.  They have a website but can’t see any contact details – their members would definitely know where the Owen family plaque is currently, otherwise the Churchstoke Parish Council?  No graveyard at the chapel, the plaque is/was on an interior wall, quite a large chunk of marble, I would think, to carry all those names!  Planning to build was initially granted in 1859, now converted to a dwelling, quite recently I think, you can see the building on Google street view with work going on.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qvj/

An earlier photo here:
https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/14524

I can see from Anc*y that Thomas William Owen died 1950 at Red Hopton (another farm in the vicinity.)  Probate granted to Gwladys Lillie Owen, widow.

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Friday 27 August 21 18:40 BST (UK)

Thank you for this. The oddity for me is that St Nicholas, presumably a CoE Church, allowed the burial of non-conformists?

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: Br1gau on Friday 27 August 21 23:18 BST (UK)

Church in Wales - non-conformist, mix and match when it came to burials. Early non-con meetings were held in private houses with the worshippers eventually raising enough money by subscription to build a chapel. Not enough for a graveyard as well.  Also many of them came from families who had lived in the area for generations and preferred, whether Church Church or not, to be buried alongside their forebears.

Don't know if you have access to the Montgomeryshire MIs.  These ones relate to the Owens.  Looking at them it seems there were previous generations at Bacheldre.

Slate headstone
In Memory of / Elizabeth, Wife of / William OWEN, / (of Bacheldre) / who died Ap. 12th 1820 Aged 42. / Also 4 of their Children / who died in their Infancy. / Also Richard OWEN, / who died Dec. 1st. 1822 / Aged 76. / With deepest though spectator view thy fate: / Thus mortals pass to an immortal state. / Through death's dark vale we hope they've found their way / To the bright regions of eternal day.

Slate headstone
In Memory of / Richard Son of / William and Elizabeth / OWEN, / (of Bacheldre) who departed / this life Jan 1st. 1827, Aged 19. / Ah precious life! how sweet to mortal man, / By unknown fate cut shorter than a span. / No cries nor tears from ghastly death can save, / To-day in health, to-morrow in the grave.

Sandstone headstone
Memoriae Sacrum / William OWEN / of Bacheldre in this parish / born May VII, MDCCLXXVII / died November XXVI, MDCCCL. / also / Richard OWEN / late of Dolver / in the parish of Llanllwchaiarn / born October X, MDCCLXXIV; / died April XVIII. MDCCCLIII. / Resurgam.
(William 1777 – 1850, Richard 1774 – 1853)

Sandstone headstone
Memoriae Sacrum / Richard OWEN / of Bacheldre: / died November 27th MDCCCLVIII, / aged 53 years. / Jane OWEN / his daughter; / died August 18th M.DCCCLX, / aged 1 year & 7 months. / "Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright; / for the end of that man is peace."
The monumental mason had Richard die in 1858 not 1859 = MDCCCLIX

Sandstone headstone
In / Affectionate remembrance / of / Elizabeth OWEN / of Bacheldre / who died March 28th 1893 / aged 67 years. / And of Elizabeth, her daughter / who died Jan. 16th 1943 / aged 85 years. / Thanks be to God which giveth us / the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Small marble stepped cross
In / Loving Memory of / Robert Ernest / beloved son of / T. and A. OWEN, Hopton, / Died March 20th. 1904, / Aged 7 months. / "Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."

Granite tablet with kerb
In Loving Memory of / Thomas OWEN, / Hopton, / who died October 13th. 1945. Aged 90 years. / And of Annie, his wife, / who died May 29th. 1948. Aged 88 years. / "At Rest."

Granite Headstone with kerb
Treasured Memories of / Thomas William OWEN, / Hopton. / Who died 12th Oct. 1950. / Aged 48 years. / "Loved in life, remembered in death." / also his beloved wife / Gwladys Lillie OWEN / Died 25th November 1988 / Aged 83 years

Gwladys Lillie Owen of Lynwood, Milford Road, Newtown. Probate 23 Jan 1989 Liverpool

Granite headstone
In affectionate remembrance / of / Margaret Annie (Peggy) OWEN / Of The Villa & Formerly of Hopton. / born April 10th 1900, / died September 4th 1997.
Mason: M.E. Hughes, Welshpool Tel: 01938553609  ::)

Title: Re: Mary Price & Matthew Henry Morris
Post by: David Hankey on Saturday 28 August 21 07:59 BST (UK)

Well, what a journey this has been. It has opened up in a way I never thought possible. I didn't realise that the Church and non-conformists mixed when it came to burials.

Thank you so much, Br1gau, for all your help which has enabled me to fill in the many gaps I had. No doubt more will be revealed as time goes by.

I have been able to contact  Monty MIs through their Facebook page so I'll see what that brings.

Again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance, David