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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Galium on Sunday 22 August 21 12:47 BST (UK)

Title: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Galium on Sunday 22 August 21 12:47 BST (UK)
Today I am looking at the family of Charles Hobbs Tuckwell.  His wife was Mary Ann Smith. She was registered as Mary Ann Smith at birth. She was baptised as Mary Ann Smith, and signed the marriage register as Mary Ann Smith when she became Mary Ann Tuckwell. She died as Mary Ann Tuckwell.

At no point in her life is there a single record showing her as Mary Ann Agnes Smith or Tuckwell - except all the family trees on Ancestry, none of which can point to any justifying evidence for doing that.

This kind of thing seems to happen fairly often.  I'm not counting those who like to include a maiden name along with a woman's married name, even if that person doesn't seem to have used it; it makes a kind of sense to do so.  But why do people give their ancestors names that they never had?
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Kiltpin on Sunday 22 August 21 13:18 BST (UK)
Well -

Middle Names = Middle Class   
A "Smith" was a worker, but a "Smythe" was management. 

There was a time when these things mattered a lot to people. 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: carolynb on Sunday 22 August 21 13:21 BST (UK)
Hi where the family catholic? When a catholic is confirmed they take another name known as a confirmation name. It is not to use on official things. In my family my father always used James Thomas and I can hear my mother saying to him you are not Thomas that’s your confirmation name  but before they met and he joined up for WW2 he joined as James Thomas. Just to add when I have looked at his father who was John he enlisted for WW1 as John James. So father and son both giving themselves an extra name .hope this might help Carolyn
By the way Agnes is a saints name that would be a popular choice for a young lady
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: DianaCanada on Sunday 22 August 21 13:45 BST (UK)
Have a similar situation in my family where a distant cousin converted to Catholicism just before she married, in the 1930’s.  FreeBMD included two middle initials, which threw me for awhile, but it was her.
I actually know someone who was baptized Anglican in her late teens and added another name at the time which gave her three forenames.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: coombs on Sunday 22 August 21 13:56 BST (UK)
I have an ancestor who never had a middle name. James Edgington. Yet his burial says James William Edgington. All other records on this man never gave a middle name. He was born 1852, died 1927.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Galium on Sunday 22 August 21 14:22 BST (UK)
Quote from: carolynb on Sunday 22 August 21 13:21 BST (UK)
Hi where the family catholic?

I will bear that consideration in mind, but there are very few RC people in the families I research - and Mary Ann Smith/Tuckwell most certainly was not. 
I'd understand if there was evidence of the people acquiring an extra name in somebody's tree actually using it themselves at some time in their lives, but as with Mary Ann, there is none.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: DonM on Sunday 22 August 21 14:41 BST (UK)
Ann Clubb Brown Williamson Margaret Mary McMurtrie

Born 03 Aug 1917 in Govan

Her two children just have one given name.  When she died her death reg. reads Agnes CBWMM; ms McMurtrie.  She signed letters and cards "Simply Aggie" but we knew who they were from.

Don
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: youngtug on Sunday 22 August 21 14:55 BST (UK)
Often just the result of people adding similarly named people and ending up with an amalgamation of different people.
An example is Ann Pitts born in Gloucestershire. A lot of trees on Ancestry have her with a second name of Elizabeth and also with a photo. A few years ago I tracked the photo  back through 8 trees to an American, Ann Elizabeth Pitts.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Billyblue on Wednesday 25 August 21 08:54 BST (UK)
As has been asked - where the family Catholic?
I have five Christian names, but only three on the official record.

My mother wanted Dawn, which I'm known by. It's my second name.
My godmother (Mum's stern older sister) insisted her chosen name be my first name.  This is a real bugbear but at least when people ring me and ask to speak to (that name), it's probably a scam as they obviously don't know me.
My father wanted another name. 
So those three are on my Birth Certificate.
But when they got to the church for my baptism, the priest said 'She has to have a saint's name' and he added Anne.  And then when I was confirmed, I chose Cecilia as she is the patron of musicians and I fancied myself in that category.  (Didn't eventuate, though  ;D  ;D )
Dawn M
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 25 August 21 09:02 BST (UK)
Ann and Agnes are interchangeable particularly in Scotland, so I wonder if the trees mean “Ann/Agnes” rather than adding Agnes as an additional middle name.

It could have originated from a tree owner who knew her by her middle name - maybe she favoured Agnes though the official records show Ann as her name.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Billyblue on Wednesday 25 August 21 09:07 BST (UK)
As an indexer for the Ryerson Index, I can assure you that lots of people apparently go by / are known by names which bear no relation to their given names.   :)  :)  :)

Dawn M
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 25 August 21 09:38 BST (UK)
That is very true Dawn.  ;D (My OH’s maternal family had some doozies.)
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Wednesday 25 August 21 12:03 BST (UK)
I had a Relative shown as Joe on all the Census Records to 1911 yet no trace of his Birth only an Ernest for the year he claimed born.
Then discovered from Relatives that he called himself Joe from a very early age because he didn't like the name Ernest.
Yet on Birth, Marriage and Death records he is declared as Ernest.

Just researched another -  Christian Names = Oswald Ivor Rees Field always known as Tom.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 25 August 21 12:13 BST (UK)
I agree with someone else who said that sometimes people amalgamate two people into one, I've seen that happen and it can be hard to correct it once it gets passed around.

I was reminded of a story an old friend of mine told me- when he was a little boy he would take his father's lunch to the factory for him. His father was called Ernest but I think he said there was more than one Ernest at the factory so for some reason they renamed his father to Pete and he'd have to ask for Pete or nobody knew who he meant lol
(This was the same friend who told me his grandmother was called Poll, short for Pauline. After some confusion I found out it was, of course, Mary Ann. He said "oh yeah, that's right")
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Wednesday 25 August 21 12:25 BST (UK)
My Mother in law Kathleen grew up and went to school in Ireland
At school nearly all the girls in her Class were named Kathleen
Since was born in May so the Teacher on Roll call called her May
Throughout her life till the day she died she was known as May including by her Husband
But on Offical records Kathleen

Have lots of Relatives known as Cissie and not the Birth Names
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: DianaCanada on Wednesday 25 August 21 14:27 BST (UK)
My mother was registered as Kathleen Joyce, in England, but every other record I have found she was Joyce Kathleen, and always known as Joyce.  Never thought to ask her why! 
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: DianaCanada on Wednesday 25 August 21 14:33 BST (UK)
Quote from: Ruskie on Wednesday 25 August 21 09:02 BST (UK)
Ann and Agnes are interchangeable particularly in Scotland, so I wonder if the trees mean “Ann/Agnes” rather than adding Agnes as an additional middle name.

It could have originated from a tree owner who knew her by her middle name - maybe she favoured Agnes though the official records show Ann as her name.

The medieval pronunciation of Agnes was Annis, and in fact, I went to college with an Annis.  I think Agnes went out of favour with the Reformation in Britain, and when it was revived in Victorian times, the g was sounded.
The origin of Ann is supposedly from Johanna, Latin female form of John.  It also gave us Jane ands many variants and in many languages.  Not sure if Hannah stands alone, from the Bible?
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: BenRalph on Saturday 28 August 21 14:13 BST (UK)
My partner's grandma died last year and her oldest 2 daughters didn't know she was born Grace as everyone called her Pat[ricia]. Her dad couldn't spell Patricia so named her after his baby sister.

An old aunt Cissy was really called Ivy and an old cousin Ivy didn't know why she was named after aunt Cissy.

I have a cousin called Kyle who everyone calls Jimmy. No idea why.
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: zetlander on Saturday 28 August 21 18:33 BST (UK)
'Aunt Mary' - registered and baptised as Mary was 'renamed' Polly as a child because there were a number of 'Mary's' in the household.
So she became Aunt Polly and signed all letters/documents as Polly Mary ......
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 02 September 21 22:43 BST (UK)
My Grandma was always known as Margaret Ann, her Sister called her Annie and my Grandad called her "Peg". When I eventually got hold of her birth certificate, her name was Marguerite Ann.

My Mother went by the name of Kathleen Rose and always signed as Mrs. K. R. Followed by her married name. Most people called her Kath or Kay. Years later when I got her birth certificate, she was Rosie Kathleen.

Carol
Title: Re: Why do they add extra names?
Post by: JAKnighton on Wednesday 06 October 21 15:48 BST (UK)
I see other researchers doing this a lot once they get to the pre-civil registration era and beyond. Parish registers are much more 'fragmented' when it comes to online research, not one single website has all of them and what they do have may not be fully covered.

So an inexperienced researcher might search for their 'John Smith' born 1750 in Hartford near Huntingdon and only get a 'Thomas Smith' born 1750 in Hartford. Instead of making the correct assumption that this is not their man, they believe that this is the same man going by a different name and therefore they combine these two men into 'John Thomas Smith'.