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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Sandel1 on Wednesday 18 August 21 10:25 BST (UK)

Title: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Wednesday 18 August 21 10:25 BST (UK)
Hi, I have a fair part done researching Scotts of Garvagh/Kilrea/Swatragh.  The branch i am working on now is the family of Charles Scott born 1866, who resided between Garvagh and Swatragh in the late 1900s.  Charles marrried twice, his first wife was McCullough with whom he raised a large family.  After her death he remarried to Eliz Smyth and they had a son John Smyth Scott 1909.  We do know the son William went to S Africa, Lewis and Hugh went abroad and returned. Others may have stayed overseas, or returned, we just don't know. We are told leaving date was circa 1920 and Hugh at least back within five or six years.  I am looking info on the marriages, if any and the burials of Charles junior, Archy (Archibold), Hugh and John Smyth Scott, I think I can account for the sisters who went to NZ and Lewis who appears with Archibold in 1937 as chief mourners at the Father Charles' funeral in Main Street Pres. Garvagh - I know ladies would not have been named as such in any case, and he was buried from Lewis' home near Stewartstown. We always knew hot weather made Charles senior ill and he had to come back to NI.   However Archibold if he was the only surviving or remaining in NI son except Lewis is elusive. Any info on the sons gratefully received.  Also interested in Scott of Moyletra who were cousins of these on some level.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: scotmum on Wednesday 18 August 21 10:36 BST (UK)
If you hit the 'report to moderator' button and ask for your post to be moved to the Ireland - Londonderry board, you will hopefully get more assistance.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Wednesday 18 August 21 13:16 BST (UK)
Thanks Scotmum, hadn't realised it had not gone there. Done.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 18 August 21 20:13 BST (UK)
Charles Scott married first Martha Jane McCullagh in 1895. Eldest child-
1. Charles John Scott (3 Aug.1896 Culnagrew-28 Feb.1919 Ballylame: pulmonary tuberculosis, 6 mo.).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02165/1820610.pdf
Bapt. 31 Jan.1897 Swatragh Presbyterian Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05165/4424611.pdf
Northern Constitution, 1 March 1919, p.5: Scott- At his father's residence, Ballylame, Garvagh, on the 28th February, 1919, Chas., eldest and dearly-beloved son of Charles Scott, aged 22 years and 6 months... Inserted by his father, mother, brothers and sisters.
Northern Constitution, 8 Mar.1919: With Mr. Charles Scott, Ballylame, and his family there is widespread sympathy in the death of his eldest son Charles, which occurred on Friday last, after a short illness. Deceased was a bright, intelligent young man, and took a keen interest in farming. He was ever willing to do a neighbour a good turn. The news of his early death has caused deep regret among all creeds and classes, and with his sorrow-stricken parents and family there is deep sympathy. The funeral on Monday to the burying-ground attached to Main Street Presbyterian Church was of large dimensions. Rev. S.B. Thomson, B.A., conducted the funeral services. The coffin was yellow, with solid brass mountings, supplied by Mr. Paul, The Shopping Centre, Garvagh.


Next child-
2. Archibald “Archie” Scott (2 Mar.1898 Culnagrew-Oct.1994) m. Geraldine (c1905-Mar.1981).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02099/1799968.pdf (McCullock)
? Bapt. Jan.1899 Swatragh Presbyterian Church.
Buried at Agherton Cemetery, Portstewart.

Fifth child-
5. William J. “Willie” Scott (15 June 1902 Ballynian-d.Cape Town, South Africa) m.1 ___- 1 son; m.2 Molly (b.Northern Ireland).
Birth: mother McCullock.
Bapt. 15 Nov.1902 Swatragh Presbyterian Church. He emigrated to the warmer climate of South Africa at the age of 17 suffering from tuberculosis, became an agent for Singer Sewing Machines and lived in Cape Town. 1960- Johannesburg.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Wednesday 18 August 21 20:30 BST (UK)
Many thanks Aghadowey never would have dreamed that Archie was living so close by.  Now we only have to account for Hugh, and nearly every branch of the family had a Hugh!
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Wednesday 18 August 21 23:04 BST (UK)
Just found out tonight the youngest was James Smyth Scott, not John Smyth Scott. On the obit for Charles 1937 he is listed as having nephews Hugh and James, and I have identified Hugh as being the son of his twin Hugh, whose brothers were Alex and Robert and much younger than Hugh.  I wonder if nephew James was in fact his son James back in Ni.  Any info on him would be very welcome too.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 August 21 09:12 BST (UK)
I think it's just a mistake in 1911 census as both his birth and death record him as JAMES Smyth Scott- born 4 Mar.1909 at Ballylame and died there 21 May 1912-

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01617/1648155.pdf  (James Smyth Scott)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05360/4494309.pdf (James Smyth Scott)
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Thursday 19 August 21 09:25 BST (UK)
Aghadowey, thanks once again for help.  I had searched high and low for ages for John but I do know that census is prone to error.   So very sad about this little one.  No idea then who James the nephew was as I was only aware of one brother Hugh.  Charlie's son Hugh then the only son not accounted for, and yes, the daughters did stay in NZ.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 August 21 09:38 BST (UK)
Two possibilities for nephew Hugh Scott at funeral in 1937 from 1911 census?

Hugh Scott, son of Hugh, age 13 in 1911-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Garvagh/Moyletra__Kill/590894/
Born 1898 Moyletra, son of Hugh Scott & Hannah Lyttle-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02099/1799727.pdf
Father Hugh Scott son of Alexander Scott-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10705/5902666.pdf

Hugh Scott, son of Henrietta, age 2 in 1911-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/The_Grove/Ballynian/595320/
Born 1908 Ballynian, son of Hugh Scott & Henrietta Kelso-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01638/1654759.pdf
Father Hugh Scott was son of Charles Scott-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10325/5758554.pdf

There was also a Hugh Scott born 1907 Lismoyle, son of William Scott & Nancy McCahon-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01680/1668189.pdf

Of course there's the possibility that nephew Hugh Scott born after 1921.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Thursday 19 August 21 11:15 BST (UK)
Thanks for endeavours with the Hugh element.  There are simply so many, usually four or five in every generation that we are putting them on the back burner as it were.  I believe James the chief mourner may have been the son of a cousin who had the same name as Hugh's the twins' father.  There is an Archibald Scott who had a son James married in 1915 and he resided at Portrush, but this would have been too young for Charles's son Archibald who was only in his teens then, but a possible relative.  Ancestry suggests Archibald married Geraldine in Toronto, so have contacted that tree holder.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 August 21 11:31 BST (UK)
 Think I was told that Geraldine was either 'foreign' or that she and Archie married somewhere foreign but never searched for their marriage. They did marry in Toronto but Geraldine was her middle name!
Send me your email address by PM if you want copy of the marriage.

30 Apr.1932 Toronto- bride Maisie Geraldine Craik born Scotland.

Added- Archie went to Canada 1928, returned on his own in 1934 (intended to settle in 'other parts of the British Empire.).
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 August 21 11:58 BST (UK)
This has to be Charles Scott & Martha Jane McCullagh's son Hugh!
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192948394/hugh-mccullagh-scott
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Thursday 19 August 21 20:11 BST (UK)
Aghadowey, thank you so much, this has made a seemingly impossible task look easy!
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Tuesday 24 August 21 08:41 BST (UK)
Lewis Scott was my mother-in-law's closest cousin.  She visited him in Lisbellaw with his wife Annie right up until I think Annie's death, he was Charles's son of Ballylame, went overseas and had come home.  We though we had him all accounted for.  Seemingly not!  I cannot find a birth reg for him, he shows on 1911 census as being aged 6.  The only birth I can find in Charles' family that we cannot account for is that of a Francis James born to Charlie and he then disappears, not even on census - he might have had a name change to Lewis.  A child born to Charles and his second wife later was called James.  I learned Lewis married a Martha Wallace in 1st Kilrea Pres Church 1926, so she must have died, and Annie seems to be his second wife.  I discovered on his father's obituary that he was living near Stewartstown in 1937 tying in with my mother-in-law talking about his burial at Brigh Presbyterian, I do not know when.  If anyone ever heard of this gentleman and can confirm my thoughts especially re name change, or know about the two wives would be very interested.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 25 August 21 14:45 BST (UK)
I learned Lewis married a Martha Wallace in 1st Kilrea Pres Church 1926.......

Marriage 28th April 1926   Coleraine SRD
Lewis Scott to Margaret Wallace

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/

KG


Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Wednesday 25 August 21 17:31 BST (UK)
Thank KG, great news that we don't have to wait 100 years to see the marriages like the births!
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 30 August 21 21:29 BST (UK)
Quote
The only birth I can find in Charles' family that we cannot account for is that of a Francis James born to Charlie and he then disappears, not even on census - he might have had a name change to Lewis.
Lewis was registered as Francis James (Francis was a McCullagh name) but his parents must have changed their mind-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01843/1718951.pdf
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: jascott on Wednesday 15 December 21 22:08 GMT (UK)
I definitely have Charles listed in my family tree.  His wife's mother was also a Scott and sister to my gr-gr-grandfather Archibald Scott (from Swatragh).
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Friday 27 October 23 20:11 BST (UK)
Several years have passed with my Scotts on hold.  Now a couple of relatives of Charles's have arrived on the scene hoping for some information.   Charles Scott born 1868 at Ballynian between Garvagh and Swatragh married twice  - firstly to a relative (1895), Martha Jane McCullough (various surname spellings are available) with whom he had a large family, and secondly to Elizabeth Smyth, with whom he had a little son who died aged three.  I have amassed quite a lot of info re Charles - though his parents Nancy Kennedy and Charles Scott were married a good few years before registrations commenced therefore we only have records of children born after 1860.  Will be interested if anyone can supply any records for older children born at Ballynian.  But for now, the question that mystifies us all - why is there no death registration for Martha Jane Scott who died between 1904 and 1909 at Ballylame, Garvagh, their newer farm and no grave?  Charles her son, and her husband Charles are both buried in Main Street Garvagh, I recently visited the grave, but the Graveyard Convener there has no reason to believe that there is anyone else in that grave - so that begs the question where is Martha Jane and where is Elizabeth's infant son James?  As Martha came from closer to Swatragh I wonder if it might be there - but McCullough is so common a surname in the south of the county I have no idea where to start looking - Swatragh perhaps would be a start.  But that doesn't explain where the little one was laid to rest in 1912.  Any ideas welcome.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 27 October 23 22:35 BST (UK)
Martha Jane (McCullough) Scott died 19 July 1907.
Like most Presbyterian churches in the area, Main St. (2nd Garvagh) didn't keep burial records except for a short time much earlier so little James Smyth Scott could be buried there. Martha, however, is listed on her parents' gravestone and presumably there-
Swatragh Parish Church: "Lizzie McCullagh of Laragh who died 25th March 1910 aged 75 years. Also her daughter Martha Jane Scott of Ballylame died 8th July 1907 aged 35 years. And her husband John McCullagh who died 27th Jan. 1917 aged 84 years. And their son Charles McCullagh who died 12th January 1939 aged 66 years. Also his wife Mary Ann who died 12th July 1949 aged 67 years. And their son Frank McCullagh Lenamore Portstewart Retired Teacher who died 20th March 1953 aged 75 years."
It's possible the burial register will list her burial. Note: her death notice in Northern Constitution, 13 July 1907 and says died at her husband's residence, Ballylame. Also possibly longer article in Coleraine Chronicle same date.
I don't see any mention of James' death in local papers but since he died a month after incident perhaps it didn't make the papers.
Title: Re: Charles Scott, Ballynian/Ballylame Garvagh
Post by: Sandel1 on Friday 27 October 23 22:50 BST (UK)
Aghadowey - my sincere thanks, you always come up with the goods.   I had toyed with the idea that she may have been buried with her parents, but then thought that she was perhaps in Main St Garvagh grave and not recorded.  I know my maternal side has this problem in Bushvale, where I was told that in past times the ladies were not always recorded as the menfolk owned the graves!   This info will be gratefully received by Martha's G Grand-daughter in NZ, especially as there is so much of history of Martha's family included, and this had been our next planned endeavour. Much appreciated.