RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 10:05 BST (UK)

Title: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 10:05 BST (UK)
Hi
Back after a long break again
Could you please let me know what details would be on a death certificate from. 1920
Im hoping date of birth to help me confirm person on my  tree is the one !
Thank you
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IgorStrav on Friday 13 August 21 10:28 BST (UK)
Hi there

Date of birth isn't included, though age will be - although you can see that in any case from the GRO index, which shows age at death.

However, the validity of the information is down to the knowledge of the person telling the registrar.
And therefore it may be correct, or in fact could be well out.

You can see from the 1939 Register that many people either don't know their OWN date of birth (as compared with the evidence of a birth certificate) or choose to alter it for a variety of reasons.

So if you're wanting an idea whether a death is yours or not (so to speak) then comparing a known age with what the informant said to the registrar, and shown on the GRO index, will be as good as buying a death cert.

On the other hand, the informant, the address at death, the occupation of the deceased, and other details on the certificate might be good clues?

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 10:39 BST (UK)
Thank you
You have confirmed my thoughts !
It was the date of birth I needed .she made her mark on marriage cert so even the spelling could be wrong of maiden  surname ..Reece ..rees..she would of had no idea
 I have correct person for death certificate ,
I think I have to leave this brick wall for a while for my sanity 🤣

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jim1 on Friday 13 August 21 10:46 BST (UK)
Tell us who you're having a problem with & maybe we can help.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 10:59 BST (UK)
Thank you
Sadly I'm currently sat in my caravan and most details at home
She is Mary Ann Reece born 1853 st George in the east ..bethnal green ,  on her census forms
Married Johnathan puttnam 1870
Her father on there John Reece ...his mark
When I ordered birth cert for only Mary ann Reece born 1853 in st George in the east ( closest  match  I could find )  says mother Elizabeth jane Marshall father George Augustus Reece ..I found there marriage cert but no other info on them
Sorry very complicated (as usual) to explain
Thank you for your patience
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 13 August 21 11:13 BST (UK)
Mary Ann says that she is aged 19 when she marries John in 1870, so born around 1851.  However, a lot of births prior to 1874 were not registered as the onus was not on the parents.

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 12:07 BST (UK)
Thank you sometimes a fresh pair of eyes to pick up on something obvious is needed
Will try again
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 13 August 21 16:27 BST (UK)
Who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate for Mary and her husband?  Is there an occupation for her father and where were they living at the time of the marriage?
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 13 August 21 16:36 BST (UK)
Witnesses = John Reece (x) Labourer and Elizabeth Anford.  Address for Mary Ann - 8 Victoria Street, and for John Puttman - 14 Medcalf Row.  Image available on Ancestry.

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IgorStrav on Friday 13 August 21 16:40 BST (UK)
Thank you
Sadly I'm currently sat in my caravan and most details at home
She is Mary Ann Reece born 1853 st George in the east ..bethnal green ,  on her census forms
Married Johnathan puttnam 1870
Her father on there John Reece ...his mark
When I ordered birth cert for only Mary ann Reece born 1853 in st George in the east ( closest  match  I could find )  says mother Elizabeth jane Marshall father George Augustus Reece ..I found there marriage cert but no other info on them
Sorry very complicated (as usual) to explain
Thank you for your patience


Have you looked at the 1871 Census at the address where Mary Ann is shown as living on the marriage certificate? (8 Victoria Street, Bethnal Green)

In my experience it's slightly unusual to have the bride and groom at different addresses, which suggests this might be the family home and point you to her parents/siblings.  You'd need to look at the various Bethnal Green census details to find the street but that's what I'd do.

There are a number of enumeration districts, and you'd have to trawl through them but.....
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 13 August 21 16:42 BST (UK)
Thanks for that BumbleB
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Bee on Friday 13 August 21 16:45 BST (UK)
From FindMyPast

baptism Mary Ann Rees 25 May 1858 St George in the East, Stepney. Baptised in Mission Chapel, Clavert St

birth 28 March 1853

parents George Augustus, ship carpenter & Elizabeth

address 104 Lucas Street
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IgorStrav on Friday 13 August 21 16:49 BST (UK)
From FindMyPast

baptism Mary Ann Rees 25 May 1858 St George in the East, Stepney. Baptised in Mission Chapel, Clavert St

birth 28 March 1853

parents George Augustus, ship carpenter & Elizabeth

address 104 Lucas Street

That's the one that newby dee found in reply 4, which sadly doesn't match the marriage cert
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Bee on Friday 13 August 21 16:52 BST (UK)
[

That's the one that newby dee found in reply 4, which sadly doesn't match the marriage cert

Sorry, missed that one
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 13 August 21 17:07 BST (UK)
I don't know if this is of any interest - a baptism from free reg

Date was 6 May 1855 and the place was West Chiltington, Sussex

Mary Anne - parents John (Labourer) and Mary Anne

The surname has been put down as REECE OR REESE

I can't find any likely looking birth registration for the above.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 17:16 BST (UK)
Just got in and found all your help in here ..thank you much appreciated
Could some one explain simply to me 😂 how I check an address   on census
Thanks again
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 13 August 21 17:22 BST (UK)
FindMyPast have the facility to check census addresses.  I have to say that I couldn't readily find either address in 1871.   :-\
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 13 August 21 17:22 BST (UK)
If you are on Find My Past they have a Census Addresses button that you can press and search a census record by address.

Be warned that some street addresses can be in more than one registration district, particularly if it is in London.

Addresses don't always appear as you expect them to due to errors in spelling.  You may need to think of an alternative spelling that is close to what you have.

 
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 17:25 BST (UK)
I'm  Almost certain her year of birth is 1853 as it's consistent with death year , and the census years I have her on...so why would she say 19 on marriage cert if she was 17 ...I know for sure census and marriage are same people
Thanks again for reading
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 17:25 BST (UK)
I'm with ancestry, do they have a way of checking census address ?
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 17:44 BST (UK)
On ancestry
George Wm Faith age 36 (born 1835) and family at 2 Victoria Street
Piece 475 folio 57 page 42
Schedule 240

Number 1 is unoccupied
Next page starts with number 12 Victoria Street (schedule 241)

Bumble was right, no number 8!
No numbers 3-11, 13-19, 21-22
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 17:49 BST (UK)
First birth?
PUTTNAM, MINNIE   
Mother's Maiden Surname: REECE 
GRO Reference: 1871  S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST  Volume 01C  Page 390

and death
March 1872 St George in the East 1c 320
Puttnam, Minnie
age 0

Next birth
PUTTNAM, JANE  JULIA     
Mother's Maiden Surname: REECE 
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 01C  Page 291
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 17:53 BST (UK)
Thank you ...all rather suspicious..I'm wondering if parents where George Augustus and Elizabeth , as I can not find them anywhere after they're  Married..
Maybe an early death and remarriage
My wall continues to build but I won't give up
Thanks again guys
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 18:03 BST (UK)
First birth?
PUTTNAM, MINNIE   
Mother's Maiden Surname: REECE
GRO Reference: 1871  S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST  Volume 01C  Page 390

and death
March 1872 St George in the East 1c 320
Puttnam, Minnie
age 0

Next birth
PUTTNAM, JANE  JULIA     
Mother's Maiden Surname: REECE
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 01C  Page 291

Yes this is my family , thank you
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 18:09 BST (UK)
Historical Streets says there is a Victoria Street in St George in the East in 1871
West Side, Piece 539, folios 41-45
"Dwellings" Blue Gate Fields
East Side in Stepney
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/+/http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:St_George_in_the_East_Registration_District,_1871_Census_Street_Index_U-Z

Well, piece 539 folio 44 page 33, at number 8, several families
Including John and Julia Reece

Though it just says Bluegate fields I think.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 18:17 BST (UK)
same family in 1881? With 8 year old Jane Puttman boarding...

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-KMG9

Address is Albert Square.


Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 18:38 BST (UK)
Historical Streets says there is a Victoria Street in St George in the East in 1871
West Side, Piece 539, folios 41-45
"Dwellings" Blue Gate Fields
East Side in Stepney
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/+/http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:St_George_in_the_East_Registration_District,_1871_Census_Street_Index_U-Z

Well, piece 539 folio 44 page 33, at number 8, several families
Including John and Julia Reece

Though it just says Bluegate fields I think.

Jon r u saying u think bluegate is in Victoria street...if so this is amazing as it also links an Irish connection I have . I have had this census a long time myself trying to make a link ...you may of just done it..🥳
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 19:08 BST (UK)
same family in 1881? With 8 year old Jane Puttman boarding...

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-KMG9

Address is Albert Square.

Osprey thank you yes I have this as well waiting to link it up because I have Johannah tullet (grandmother , Irish ) in a later census ..Eureka !!! Thank you for the reminder !

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 19:10 BST (UK)
Well I just followed the directions for Victoria Street in 1871 from TNA, and there were the Reeces.
I guess they have a reason for saying Victoria Street and BG fields are the same. You could look for the other side of it in Stepney district perhaps!

Now osprey has found something very interesting to look into as well, so the puzzle is still to find a birth for Mary.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 19:17 BST (UK)
What is TNA 😱
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 13 August 21 19:23 BST (UK)
The National Archives

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 19:39 BST (UK)
I see what you mean about the Tullet family. This 1871 entry has possibilities.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-JYR6

By the way, I'm not convinced about the age of Jane on that 1881 census. She may be 3 rather than 8.

 ::)
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 19:43 BST (UK)
address for this 1861 is 8 Victoria Street

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-JYR6
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 19:50 BST (UK)
birth reg
Julia Tulatt march qtr 1859 Stepney vol 1c pg 495 mmn Harrington
Roman Catholic baptism 1 March 1859 dob 2 Feb 1859 Julia dau of John Toolit and Johanna formerly Harrington, sponsors William McCarthy & Maria Buckley
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 20:09 BST (UK)
FreeBmd has a birth reg of Mary Ann Tulett dec qtr 1851 Stepney vol 2 pg 602 but I haven't found it on the GRO site.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 20:13 BST (UK)
They mistranscribed it!

FULETT, MARY  ANN     
Mother's Maiden Surname: HARRINGTON 
GRO Reference: 1851  D Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 602
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 20:21 BST (UK)
Osprey ! You Found her !! My tullet family ...
Thank you

Thank you everyone who has helped , all your input has been fantastic.
I have been searching for years and years on and off
I could cry with relief !
Thank you Thank you Thank you
You lovely people
🥳😁😀😀
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 20:32 BST (UK)
 so why Reece on wedding cert ?
I think I need to give my brain a rest
I will go through it all calmly once home
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 20:47 BST (UK)
quite so, why Reece on marriage and in 1881?

Julia married as Reece 9 April 1882 at Christchurch Spitalfields to Robert Cloudy. John Reece signed as witness this time.  ::)
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 21:00 BST (UK)
another birth reg
Ann Tullett june qtr 1854 Stepney vol 1c pg 470 mmn Harrington
Baptism at Our Blessed lady of Loretto 18 March born 4 March Ann daughter of John Tulett and Joanna formerly Harrington, sponsor Ann Buckley
death reg Ann Tulett 1 sept qtr 1855 Stepney vol 1c pg 298
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 21:00 BST (UK)
Possibles?
A baptism at Portsea Roman Catholic, 21 May 1820
Joannes Tullett
parents Gulielmi and Catharinae (M'Ganny)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5LJ-B4H

Workhouse admissions in Stepney from 1891 of Johanna Tulett/Tullett, born 1827-1829, widow of John.
Last one ended in her death, 13 June 1893, at 1.55 a.m.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 21:03 BST (UK)
Also osprey he made his mark at Mary Ann wedding but signed at Julia's ?
Also on Mary Ann son's birth certificate (John Richard puttnam)  she is maiden name Reece but when same son married he put mother's maiden name toolit ..I know for sure John Richard puttnam certificates are the correct ones ....maybe he just didn't know her maiden name but remembered granny tullet 🤔
There's a link somewhere and we have almost cleared my wall so onwards and upwards
Thanks again
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Friday 13 August 21 21:09 BST (UK)
Thanks Jon
I have Johannah tullet on 1891 census with John puttnam and Maria puttnam
Very sad if it's her in work house
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 August 21 21:12 BST (UK)
Sorry about that, she was getting on a bit by then.
Workhouse Register of Deaths
Johanna age 66
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1R-ZQ3V-V

It says that Johanna Tullett was taken by Friends...

And she was buried at the City of London Cemetery on 19th June 1893
https://col-burialregisters.uk/archive/burial-registers-january-1890-to-december-1899/register-048/1080452
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 21:36 BST (UK)
this death reg?
Johanna Tullett 66 june qtr 1891 Poplar vol 1c pg 453

but 1891 census age given as 90

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:31RD-1PZ

 ::)
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 21:42 BST (UK)
possible death reg
John Tulett 66 march qtr 1890 Stepney vol 1c pg 365
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Friday 13 August 21 22:00 BST (UK)
possible 1851 census in Blue Gate Fields with another daughter Catherine

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG51-P9J
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: osprey on Saturday 14 August 21 19:56 BST (UK)
thought I'd have a look for John in 1841 and there's this possible in Rotherhithe

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQK7-5PD

James was also baptised at St John's Cathedral Portsmouth 12 April 1818 son of William Tullett and Catherine formerly Mackganney.

Catherine Reece could be their remarried mother.

1851 census for James he's also a coal whipper
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG51-KSL
and 1871 with wife Jane & daughters
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBQK-W21

Another possible baptism to William & Catherine Tulett 4 March 1813 in Charles the Martyr, Plymouth, father noted as Sergeant of Marines.

Possible marriage  22 April 1809 in Chatham William Tulett and Kitty McGinnis
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Sunday 15 August 21 11:32 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone....I will go through all the above help when home and try and make sense of it all
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:28 BST (UK)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-JYR6?cid=fs_copy

Hi can anyone help me work out how to find the original of this in ancestry..
I've tried for hours and failed
Thank you
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:41 BST (UK)
Do you have a sub to find my past?  I can see the image on there.

I'm not familiar with how to find census records on Ancestry using the Piece, Folio and Page nos.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:46 BST (UK)
I only have ancestry
I have all the correct info but obviously I'm putting it in all the wrong places 😂
I will have to keep trying
Thanks for replying
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:48 BST (UK)
Have you tried doing it by looking for one of the others in the household?

Some names are Jane Donald born 1823 Middlesex, Sarah Smith born 1839 Ireland and Catherine Keating born 1835 Ireland.

There are 11 people in that household, address is 8, Victoria Street, St George in the East, London & Middlesex
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:51 BST (UK)
Good plan ...tried other family members only
Thank you
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:51 BST (UK)
Try looking for Johana Lulott  ;)   

Or from the Search page, select 1861, then England.  You can then enter the Piece No:  280, Folio No: 42 and page No: 27. 
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:52 BST (UK)
I've just tried with Catherine Keating by entering her name, year of birth and place of birth and living in Middlesex, England and it comes up with a birth year of 1838 Cork, Ireland.

I don't have a sub to Ancestry so can't check if it is the right one.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 17 August 21 16:54 BST (UK)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-JYR6?cid=fs_copy

Hi can anyone help me work out how to find the original of this in ancestry..
I've tried for hours and failed
Thank you

She is transcribed at Johanna Lulott on Ancestry.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 17 August 21 17:01 BST (UK)
Tried to add the link, but not working  :-\

The joy of mistranscriptions... ::) Daughter Julia is down as Fullet.

Monica
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 17 August 21 17:03 BST (UK)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-JYR6?cid=fs_copy

Hi can anyone help me work out how to find the original of this in ancestry..
I've tried for hours and failed
Thank you

She is transcribed at Johanna Lulott on Ancestry.

Apologies to BumbleB who had already pointed this out  :-X
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: newby dee on Tuesday 17 August 21 17:58 BST (UK)
Lulott !!! Like my search isn't hard enough 😂😂
Thank you all !!
Definitely my tullet / Reece link here ..just got to figure it out ..too many coincidences with address and names