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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: ANT_55 on Wednesday 11 August 21 23:03 BST (UK)
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Hello all, and firstly i will say what a brilliant lot you are.
I am trying to find any information about my grandfather, unfortunately i don't have much to go on. Sadly, he passed away when my father ( his son), was only ten years old, from TB, so i never got to see him. I myself was born in 1955, and i believe my grandfather passed away around 1937. My father was born in sidney st, tidal basin, tower hamlets, on aug 1st 1927. His mothers name was HARRIET SUSAN ABBOTT ( NEE ROBSON ), i think born in 1897, maybe west ham, essex. My father, GEORGE WILLIAM ABBOTT, married my mother DOREEN JOYCE ABBOTT, ( NEE DURHAM) d.o b 22nd june 1929 on 8th oct 1948, west ham. My father was one of four children, but again sadly, every aunt, and uncle has now passed. I do not know anything about my grandfather, even his first name. I remember my father talling me he hated his father, because he became violent, i believe because of TB, so i never talked about him. On one occasion, i did see a couple of photographs of him, one in a ww1 uniform, and one sitting outside the sanatorium, but they disappeared. I have no idea where my grandfather was born, or what year, and have absolutely nothing to go on. I wanted to do a small family tree, but was stumped at the first hurdle. I am very much hoping that someone can give me a head start, because i'm totally lost.
Thankyou
Tony
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Hi,
Their first child was born 1920 HENRY J. ABBOTT West Ham Registration District.
A possible marriage Abbott = Robson is
June Quarter 1919 West Ham Harry Abbot = Harriet H Robson.
Are you sure your G.Mother’s second name was Susan?
OTHER CHILDREN BORN in WEST HAM, mother’s maiden name Robson this would make 5 children in total.
Can you confirm any of the above names?
Births Dec 1922
Abbott Ada
Births Sep 1924
Abbott Rose A
Births Sep 1927
Abbott George W Robson
Births Jun 1932
Abbott James A Robson
You can search yourself, on free BMD
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl (https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl)
SPENDLOVE
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Welcome to rootschat
I suspect that Harriet H was a transcription error when the GRO marriage index was typed up
Birth June qtr 1897
Robson Harriet Susan
W. Ham 4a 129
Death
Harriet Susan Abbott
Birth 11 March 1897
Death March qtr 1975
Redbridge, Essex
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A possible marriage Abbott = Robson is
June Quarter 1919 West Ham Harry Abbot = Harriet H Robson.
Could this be his death as you mention 1937
Death Sep qtr 1937
Abbott Harry age 41
Essex S.W. 4a 196
ADDED
To track Harry further back you really need his marriage certificate which should name his father.
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Wow, that could possibly be. I can remember two things, one was my father telling me that he was glad his father passed away, because he was violent. And two, my sister telling me that my grandfather was only about 40 when he died. Now, i do know that he ended up in a sanitorium, as i once see an old photo of him sitting outside. I am aware that it had something to do with being a west ham sanatorium, however, i don't know where, but i'm going to presume he died there. Where he is buried i have no idea. I am very new to this, and becase my health is not too good, struggle a little. But, the help i am getting from you wonderful people is truly amazing. What a brilliant site.
Tony
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Hi,
Rosie this must be him, because 1939 Register Harriett P (as transcribed) is a widow.
Only one of children I listed is with her. Have located George W, but we are not allowed to give transcripts of 1939 Register.
Tonyblue66 you have access to Ancestry or Find my past?
Spendlove
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I had spotted the Harriet P (as transcribed) and compared the original with a capital "S" elsewhere on the sheet. It looks like an "S" when compared against Sidney Street at top of screen.
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I agree that the 'P' in 1939 is an 'S'
What are your thoughts on our findings Tony :-\
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Hi rosie
To be honest, i am gobsmacked, i really don't know how you do it, but am surely grateful. In answer to your question, yes, i was on ancestry. But, because i did not know my grandfathers name, or age of death, i became frustrated, so ended my memberbership within the trial period. (14 DAYS). But, now that i have more information to go on, maybe it would be a good idea to start afresh. I literally found very little when i looked before, simply because of a few small details. I did join the forces records site, because as i mentioned, am interested in where he served, what unit, i presume a london unit, and when he was dismissed. However, maybe i need a few more details before i go down that route. Am dead chuffed about all this. Before i joined this site, i found out about it, and started to read some of the stories. The information that was found for people, who like me, do not have a clue where to strt, was brilliant. Keep up the good work.
Tony
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Forces War records are unlikely to have his service records as records after 1920 are still with the MOD.
If you are considering an Ancestry sub there is an offer for 50% off that many of us have been using.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=848296.msg7184792#msg7184792
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Hi Tony
Pleasure to assist.
If you do re join Ancestry try the following connection posted by Sandra, it is a reduced price offer.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/offers/subscribe?dna=crossAct
The important thing is you must cancel your subscription, but if you have only been on free 14 day, cancellation may not apply to you.
Also if you are able to get to your local library, the may have free access it is worth asking the question.
Spendlove
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James A Abbott dies is West Ham aged 2 in 1934
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Regarding military records: About two thirds of WW1 records were destroyed in bombing during WW2. So it is probable that you will not find records for Harry Abbott.
Having said that, I did find an attestation record for a Harry Abbott to the 13th Batt East Surrey Regt.
He was a shop boy / laundry hand living at 9a Pevensey Road, Tooting.
He enlisted at Wandsworth 29 June 1915, but he was discharged 21 Jan 1916 because he had lied about his age on enlistment.
He said he was 19 when he attested, but was actually 16yrs and 9 months (so born 1898).
His next of kin is recorded as Jane Abbott - mother. (Same address in Tooting as Harry)
Harry may well have waited a year or more, and then joined up again, but I didn’t see any records to support this.
We don’t know if this is your relative or not, which is why it is important to get his marriage certificate (assuming he hasn’t lied on it) :))
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Harriet Susan ROBSON
Birthdate 11 Mar 1897
Baptism 26 Mar 1897 St Luke, Victoria Docks, West Ham Essex
Parents George Robson and Emma
This is Harriet with her family in 1911 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWF3-TCN
and in 1901 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9NZ-3F6
MARRIAGE
8 Oct 1883 - St Paul, Bow Common
Groom: George ROBSON age 21, labourer; father - William Thomas Robson – shopkeeper
Bride: Emma PICKURS (PICKUSS), age 21 spinster; father - George Pickurs - labourer
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Thank you both very much, will see if i can find things out soon, when my health improves a little. I have two elder sisters, 71 and 72 respectively, and neither have mentioned anything that has been found by you wonderful people. And i believe the younger one has done a family tree.
Thankyou all
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Probate--- Abbott Harry 24 Highgate Rd Portsmouth died 30 May 1937 at St Marys Hospital Portsmouth. Admin to Sidney Alfred Harry Abbott omnibus driver. Effects £ 619 2s 7d
Birth Pancras- Harry Abbott Dec 1896 mothers maiden name GOLD
Marriage Pancras- George Abbott & Hannah Mary Gold Jun 1890
1911 has mother as Mary Hannah, married 21 years nine births with three deaths. Harry is a 15 year old errand boy for a brass finisher born in St Pancras.
Sidney Alfred Harry Abbot was registered in Portsea 1896 MMS Searle. Interesting marriage in Portsea `1896 Harry Abbott and Rhoda Maud A Searle.
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There is free ancestry home access at our library until Dec 2021. Feel sure this will apply throughout th3 country. I volunteer at my local library.
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Hello again, not been on here for a while due to ill health. I do hope you are all keeping well. ..............Two questions... Firstly, i know my grandfather was in the army during WW1, but have no idea of what unit he was in, Regiment, where he served, or his military number. Secondly, i have seen a photograph of him in uniform a long time ago, ( photo now missing ), and i did notice on his left sleeve, he had to small stripes, which i think are wound stripes, was he wounded twice? Many thanks for all the good work you do, i do hope my questions can be answered. Good luck. HARRY ABBOTT, born december 1896, ST PANCRAS, mothers maiden name GOLD.
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Believe he was in the 12th East Surrey Regiment, service number 5142. There are several miltary records on Findmypast, one of which indicates he was wounded in Forearm(possibly left arm)
SS
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Wow, thanks very much for that information. What do you think are the chances it will be him?. I do know he was in a sanitorium in essex somewhere, and died in 1937 aged 41 of TB. I also wonder if there is a grave that still exists. Thankyou very much for this information, even small amounts of info gets me so very excited. I really appreciate what you have found out. ......Tony.
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Tony,
Info only re Grandfather Harry Abbott died 1937 aged 41.
Starting with the birth of Eldest son Henry John Abbott. Born as per 1939 war register dob 31.03.1920
His birth address 24, Sidney Street etc as per image.
In 1921 census free index the only person living at no. 24 was a Harry Abbott, aged 24y 10mths, born Islington, Dock Labourer (ex army)
Birth
ABBOTT, HARRY mmn OSBORN
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 334
Marriage of Parents (Image available on Anc*)-takes you back another generation.
Marriages Jun 1895
Abbott Henry Islington 1b 484
Osborn Ada Islington 1b 484
1901 census.
Piece 181 Folio 107 Page number 28
Household schedule number 196
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Mr Abbott 24 Head
Mrs Abbott 24 Wife
Harry Abbott 5 Son
#John S Abbott 1 Son
# ABBOTT, JOHN SIDNEY mmn OSBORN
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 287
1911 census Piece 888
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Henry Abbott 34 Head
Ada Abbott 34 Wife
Harry Abbott 16 Son
John Abbott 12 Son
Albert Abbott 5 Son
1921 finds Henry & Ada at the same address as Harriet Susan in 1939 war register
SS
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Harry's father Henry Abbott was born 31.3.1877, Sidney Street, Parents Charles & Rebecca. Baptism image on Anc*
Charles Abbott married Rebecca Smith 1871 (image of marriage on Anc*)
Charles was born
ABBOTT, CHARLES mmn MALONEY
GRO Reference: 1848 D Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS Volume 01 Page 277
Parents Charles Ford Abbott & Sarah Ann Maloney--married 1845, image on Anc* and takes you back another generation.
SS
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Hi
There is a tree on Ancestry for a Harry Abbott with similarities born St Pancas and died 1937 Whipps Cross Sanctuary, Tidal Basin, Leyton of TB.
A word of warning, public trees are not always accurate and though there are similarities, there are several differences too. eg address Sidney Street but mmn not Gold, also marriage date wrong .
So must be taken with a huge pinch of salt!
I think you are safer with what rootschatters have found and as advised a couple of certificates to confim some details.
Hope I have nt added to the confusion
Cathy
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Mis-transcribed on FindMyPast as Harriet Robson (1897) & Henry J Robson (1920) on 1921 census. With her parents.
SS
added, transcription error reported to FindMyPast
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Thank you all so very much for your help, i am so amazed at the information you give. Keep up the good work, and god bless you all. Tony.
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Tony, is there a family history society anywhere near where you live? or a U3A family history group?
I think you would find out so much more about how to go about doing your tree if you were to talk to other family historians - we all had to start from scratch and build up our knowledge as we went along, which is why we tend, as a community on places such as here, to be happy to help others.
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General info, Charles Ford Abbott on a few documents records his occupation as "Optician". Do not think this is quite what we imagine in modern day terms. In 1841 census he was an apprentice to a James Kitchen who was a telescope maker. When Charles & Sarahs daughter Maria was baptised in 1864 his occupation was an Optical Turner. Probably was involved in the grinding and shaping of optical lenses.
1841 ref 721 5 5
SS
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Darnity. In answer to your question, i really do not know. At this moment in time, my sole interest is , on my grandfather abbott, as i knew nothing whatsoever about him. The fact also, that he served in ww1, , was wounded twice i believe, only to perish in 1937 of that dreadful disease TB. I cannot help to think that it was a terrible injustice. Now, i did join forces records to see if i can find out a bit more, but i just find things difficult at the moment, my attention span is limited. I did find out that 12 regiment, east surrey regiment did serve at the somme, and maybe ypres too. However, i have no idea if my grandad was there, or incidently, where he was wounded. As i stated earlier, my sole interest at the moment is him, when he enlisted, where he served, where wounded, i cannot for some reason find this information out, or rather don't know how to. Many many thanks for all your hard work, very much appreciated. Wishing you all a wonderful new year.
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Also. As stated, my grandfather was in whips cross hospital, and died there, so where would he be buried? I have been onto the CITY OF LONDON crematorium and cemetery records, but cannot find him. I have relatives buried there. So yet again, this can be very confusing. Many thanks.
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Just to add a bit more to his Military career.
He attested into the 8th. Btn. E. Surrey Regt. as 8/5142.
He went overseas with them in July 1915 which earned him the 15 star.
He remained there until 4/7/16.
17/1/17 he's posted to the 1st. E. Surrey Regt.
It's quite possible he was wounded in July 1916 & repatriated before being posted.
I think his posting to the 1st. was administrative as he was only there for a couple of weeks
& then posted to the 12th. E. Surrey Regt. until Aug. 1917.
After that he was transferred to the Royal Defence Corps as 90928.
Reading the war diary of the 8th. I would suggest he received his wound on the 1st. July 1916
at the Battle of Albert. He would have been 1 of 272 wounded that day.
Had he been wounded a 2nd. time it was possibly at Hollebeke on Aug. 2nd/3rd. 1917 when
his Btn. was attacked & shelled.
There were 115 wounded at that time.
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Wow, thanks jim. I joined FORCES WAR RECORDS, and never see any of this. I don't quite know how you do it, but believe me, i am more than grateful. Cheers mate. Tony.