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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: parf on Monday 09 August 21 17:16 BST (UK)
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Hello, when trying to find more about my Great Uncle William Smith born 25th March 1914 in Ynyshir, Glamorgan, I came across a William Smith living at 34 Derby Street in Liverpool, with the same birth date on the 1939 register !! The transcription on Ancestry says 25 March 1914 but when I checked the actual picture I wasn't 100% sure if it did say March. Would anyone be able to have a look at it and tell me what they think please.
My William died in ww2, but have never known much about if he was married or not or had children.
If this is my William then it looks as if he was married to Mary, born 22 June.
any help or advice would be much appreciated
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was Derby Street in Kirkdale ,Liverpool ?
Banns - but no marriage I can see on Lan-opc or freebmd
Banns: St Aidan, Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
William James Smith - B., this Parish, 14 Rockingham St.
Mary Vera Frances Bage - S., Parish of St. Matthew, Bootle, 7 Roby St., Bootle
First Reading: 23 Aug 1936; Read By: Neville Brereton
Second Reading: 30 Aug 1936; Read By: Neville Brereton
Third Reading: 6 Sep 1936; Read By: Neville Brereton
Notes: Certificate issued 10/9/36 by Neville Brereton Vicar Fee pd. 2/-
Register: Banns 1921 - 1946, Page 88, Entry 264
Source: LDS Film 1546107
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Mary V F Smith and son mmn Bage are elsewhere on the 1939 Register
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Birth date in 1939 is definitely 25th March 1914. Whoever has written it out has put Mch for March instead of Mar which is the more normal abbreviation.
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I agree it says March on the 1939 register
Derby Street is in Old Swan
Electoral Registers for 34 Derby St
1937-1938 William Smith and Mary Smith
1938-1939 William Smith, Mary Smith, Elizabeth Smith
1939-1940 William Smith, Mary Smith
They weren't there in 1936-1937
In 1945 no Smiths listed at 34 Derby St, but there is a Mary Smith (only occupant registered to vote) listed at 21 Derby Street
Do you know which branch of the services William was in and when during WW2 he died?
If so, have you checked the CWGC site to see if there is any mention of family members?
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/
Boo
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The marriage of William J Smith and Mary V F Bage was registered in Bootle, Lancs, during the period July- September 1936 ( Free BMD)
Ynyshir was in the (then) parish of Ystradyfodwg which was in the registration of Pontypridd..
It looks as if the registration of William's birth was either -
William John Smith Mar Q 1914 Pontypridd. Mmn Lane. ( if registered before the end of March)
Or William John Smith Jun Q 1914 Pontypridd. Mmn Rees(if registered later). Source GRO Index
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Thanks emeltom for that, thats brilliant, im sure it must be him ! there couldnt be 2 William Smiths with the same birth date, could there ?
Thanks also garstonite and Comberton for looking, but I did find a marriage on Freebmd for William Smith and Mary Roberts Dec Q 1938, Liverpool S. Not sure but just a thought, but I could be wrong!
William died on 18th March 1943 in Burma, but unable to see his records to see his next of kin.
I did find William and Mary still at 34 Derby Street on the electoral registers on 1937-1938, 1938-1939 and 1939-1940 but not after that. There is a Mary Smith at 21 Derby Street 1945-1951, who could be Williams widow maybe.
Lots of "maybe's" I know but would love anyones thoughts on it please.
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Sorry our posts seem to have overlapped. Thank you for that info, it makes me feel as if im on the right track at least !!
William, doesnt have a middle name, he is just William Smith, he was baptised on 15th December 1927, in St Annes church in Ynyshir, his date of birth is noted as 25th March 1914. His mmn was Mills.
I have found his details on CWGC, and it doesnt mention any next of kin, he is lance sergeant 4189779, Royal Welsh Fusilliers, 1st Bn, just gives birth date and date he was killed.
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William was in the Army before WW2
Royal Welch Fusiliers
4189779 William Smith
Attested 4-10-32 Regular Army
period for which enlisted in years 7/5
date of birth 25-3-14
missing believed killed Burma 18/3/43
P R M believed killed now reported killed in action (Burma) 18/3/43
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Amazing, thank you, I had no idea he was already in the army before the war !
so he joined the army in 1932, can i find out any other information about him from that ?
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You could apply for a copy of his service record
Would cost £30 and there would be quite a long wait
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
Boo
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William was in the Army before WW2
Royal Welch Fusiliers
4189779 William Smith
Attested 4-10-32 Regular Army
period for which enlisted in years 7/5
date of birth 25-3-14
missing believed killed Burma 18/3/43
P R M believed killed now reported killed in action (Burma) 18/3/43
and , if he was already serving, he will not have been included in the 1939 register.
Boo
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Ah, thanks for that. What if he had done his time in the army, it says "period for which enlisted 7/5" so that's 7 years from 1932 when he joined would be 1939 ? Or is 7/5 mean 7 and a half years ? Sorry not quite understanding that or does it mean he was in the army for 5 years ?
I don't really want to pay for his records as he is only a distant family member, and actually I got my Dad's service record and it didn't tell me much !
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from the commonwealth war graves
LANCE SERJEANT
WILLIAM SMITH
Service Number: 4189779
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Royal Welch Fusiliers
1st Bn.
Date of Death
Died 18 March 1943
Age 28 years old
Buried or commemorated at
RANGOON MEMORIAL
Face 9.
Myanmar
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Thank you all for your help, I've got a bit more information on him now, as I didn't know he had joined the army before ww2. Still a bit of a mystery to whether that is him on 1939 register or not but will keep looking !
Maybe ask on ww2 board if anything else can be found out about him.
Jan
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If his parents/siblings were still alive and you know where they were, may be worth checking newspapers to see if there was a death announcement/In Memoriam notice published which 'may' give you some clues about a possible marriage?
Boo