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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: nlarkin1 on Sunday 08 August 21 12:40 BST (UK)

Title: Livermores of Essex
Post by: nlarkin1 on Sunday 08 August 21 12:40 BST (UK)
I've been trying for years to find a baptism record for Isaac Livermore, who was born around 1721 and died in Little Dunmow, Essex, in 1794.

His siblings (from wills) that I know of were: Ann (married name Ady), James, Judith (married name Choate), Benjamin and John (who died in Great Dunmow in 1789).

I've been unable to find any baptism records of the siblings that would put the family in any single location. Perhaps they either moved around or came from outside Essex.

Any help would be hugely appreciated!
Nick
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: PaulineJ on Sunday 08 August 21 14:28 BST (UK)
Firstly, which websites/resources have you used?

When/where are any baptisms which may/may not be the family unit?
When/where did Ann & Judith wed? (indicator of age)
What age is recorded against burial for Benjamin & John in 1789?

Pauline
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 08 August 21 14:37 BST (UK)

Isaac Livermore’s memorial stone at St Mary the Virgin, Little Dunmow, although not necessarily correct, gives a birth year of 1717.

In
memory of
ANN LIVERMORE
wife of ISAAC LIVERMORE
who departed this life
February the 19th 1781
aged 49 years
also of the above named
ISAAC LIVERMORE
who departed this life
February the 15th 1794
aged 77 years

Footstone:
A L 1781
I L 1794
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: nlarkin1 on Sunday 08 August 21 14:53 BST (UK)
Thank you, yes that is indeed the correct memorial stone (I must have misread the date when looking at the stone in person due to the writing being difficult to search).

The sites I have used (from memory) over the years include: Ancestry, FindmyPast, Family Search, Essex Archives, FreeReg. Unfortunately I don't have any birth years for any of the siblings.

I've found many baptism records for Livermores with the sibling names, but none so far where more than one sibling is listed in the same place -- so it's been like searching for a needle in a haystack. Locations connected to the family from will mentions include Dunmow, High/Good Easter and Wethersfield.
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 08 August 21 15:43 BST (UK)
The only relevant marriage found so far:

Judith Livermore married James Choate 1749 at Wethersfield (Boyd’s marriage index)
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: PaulineJ on Sunday 08 August 21 15:54 BST (UK)
The only thing you can do is collate what you have found and then eliminate what is obviously wrong.

But if you're not keeping records of potential baptisms / marriages then you'll never straighten them out.
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 11 August 21 06:48 BST (UK)
Not all parish registers are on line, your Isaac Livermore who married Ann? baptised children in Barnston St Mary from 1751-1758, then Barnston St Andrew 1760-1761, moving to Little Dunmow 1762-1774.

Barnston and Great Dunmow are only 2 miles apart, with Little Dunmow 3 miles from Great Dunmow.

Do you have a subscription to Seax (Essex Record Office) you could find more information checking the registers for accuracy.They also may have notes not included when transcribed.
For example no one on line site had all the baptisms, I used Findmypast, The Genealogist and Ancestry
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 11 August 21 10:04 BST (UK)
Quite an age difference between Isaac and Ann, could she be his second wife?
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 11 August 21 10:24 BST (UK)
You mention wills - does that include Isaac Livermore of Wethersfield, draper, 1730. He mentions a Thomas Livermore of Wethersfield, innkeeper and his son Isaac. There is a baptism of an Isaac in Halsted to Thomas and Mary around 1717.
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 11 August 21 10:34 BST (UK)
Are you sure the sister Ann married a Mr Ady. There is a marriage for an Ann Livermore in Wethersfield to Guiver Ansell on 2 June 1743. In Guiver / Guyver's will he mentions a son Ady Ansell otherwise Ady Livermore (by his wife Ann Livermore before their marriage).
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 11 August 21 12:32 BST (UK)
Quote from: LizzieL on Wednesday 11 August 21 10:24 BST (UK)
You mention wills - does that include Isaac Livermore of Wethersfield, draper, 1730. He mentions a Thomas Livermore of Wethersfield, innkeeper and his son Isaac. There is a baptism of an Isaac in Halsted to Thomas and Mary around 1717.

I don't think is the right Isaac after all.
later in his will Isaac (draper of Wethersfield) mentions Thomas Livermore of Halstead , but does not mention relationship, so he is different from his brother Thomas (innkeeper of wethersfield). Also there is an isaac Livermore and his wife Elizabeth, baptising children in halstead around the same time that Isaac and Ann are baptising theirs in Dunmow etc.

Isaac (draper of Weathersfield mentions quite a lot of Livermores in other places in Essex, but not his relationship to them. He does mention sister Jane Crackenthorp. A Jane Livermore married John Fuller in Halstead in 1709, then a Jane Fuller married Samuel Crackenthorp in Halstead in 1721.
Bothe jane and samuel are mentioned in will of J Livermore of Bocking Braintree in 1745. Possibly the John Livermore of Bocking mentioned in Isaac of Weatherfield's will. 
Also Issac left something to a dissenting minister of Bocking - which makes me wonder whether they were non-conformists and Isaac of Dunmow might have been an NC baptism. The Livermores seem to have form in that respect !

Modified to correct Bocking to Braintree.

Jane Crackenthorp also mentioned in a will of T Livermore of Weathersfield in 1731 - Essex wills beneficiaries index. trying to find if actual wills are on line
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: amondg on Saturday 14 August 21 06:07 BST (UK)
Have you tried tracing the family by who inherited what land and how did they get it in the first place.
I cannot see the Essex wills only the PCC wills
For example there is a will of William Yalden of Good Easter, did he leave land to Isaac Livermore who married Ann Yalden 1751.
Then Isaac Livermore 1815(son of your Isaac) has land in Good Easter.

Your Isaac 1794 leaves Brick House in Little Dunmow to his son Isaac but has lands, tenements, orchards, gardens etc. in Great Dunmow that are to be sold. Recalling that Isaac Snr. and Ann had children in Barnston for several years before moving to Little Dunmow, what made him move an inheritance? 
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: nlarkin1 on Saturday 14 August 21 09:46 BST (UK)
Thanks all for the above (I honestly am very grateful for all your help/suggestions). I'm aware off all of the above, apart from the Ady/Guiver connection. Ann is simply listed as Any Ady in her brother's will, so I'll have a dig around there.

Regarding the property etc -- I've no confirmation that William Yalden left property to Isaac Livermore specifically. However, Isaac came into possession of Brick House via his brother John Livermore. In John's will, he leaves Brick House and various other properties to his brother Isaac to use until Isaac's death, after which he wills that the property be then given to one of Isaac's other sons (I think John from memory). So to me that indicates that John either had no children, or no surviving children by the time of his death. I've not been able to locate a marriage for that John, nor any other wills to be able to trace the history of the property before this time.

That's why I'm so eager to find a cluster of baptisms of the siblings to be able to have a real idea of where they came from.

Regarding Brick House in Little Dunmow -- it was put up for sale earlier this year for over £3 million. If only it had been left to my line!
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: amondg on Saturday 14 August 21 13:34 BST (UK)
Brick House caught my attention as my 3rd Great grandparents owned a house called Brick House  in Coggeshall, the land that went with it is now a housing estate.

Is there anything interesting in the marriage bonds? Isaac to Helen Smith 1747, Isaac to Ann Yeldon 1751 and finally John Livermore to Susan Hubbard 1760.

ERO ref: D/DGd T98 Manor of Livermore alias Livermoor Grange in Brandon Suffolk 1693-1733.

Any connection?
Title: Re: Livermores of Essex
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 14 August 21 13:43 BST (UK)
Quote from: amondg on Saturday 14 August 21 13:34 BST (UK)

Is there anything interesting in the marriage bonds? Isaac to Helen Smith 1747, Isaac to Ann Yeldon 1751 and finally John Livermore to Susan Hubbard 1760.


I have John Livermore and Susan(na) Hubbard marriage in Little Chesterford. I have this John as one of our lot, not the Wethersfield / Dunmow lot. Baptised 25 Oct 1741 in Great Chesterford s/o Daniel Livermore and Mary nee Reynolds.