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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: verezzi on Thursday 29 July 21 08:38 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I have a chap who married in Newcastle in 1820 and then moved around Wallsend, Benwell and Arthur's Hill. I have a place in Northumberland where he is 'Native from' but I can't read it, is there anyone here who can identify it please? See attached. Thanks for reading!
Have a good day,
Dan
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Resized.
Malky
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Thanks for the resize,
I've been looking over maps current and old but I can't see what it would be, we don't have his baptism so finding it might help find his parents but no luck so far.
Thanks again,
Dan
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Hi Dan,
Do you have him on 1851 Census?
Ist letter looks like a W to me, is that what you think?
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Ok just looked at your other posts so Thomas Wilkinson who was transported I presume.
So wont find him 1851 with pob
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Hi yes,
He was transported to Australia in 1836 for stealing a pony, this 'native of' illegible scribble comes from the transportation document. He married at All Saints Newcastle, baptised a son at Newcastle while resident of Bigg's Main near Wallsend then he has a daughter born in Arthur's Hill near Benwell which is our last sighting prior to transportation. on the 1841 census, his wife and kids are in Jarrow, Durham if any of this helps... I thought it looked like Warrenser but no such place of course!
Thanks for your help,
Dan
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Sorry I cant be much help.
Closest I can see is Warrenside, but they are in Sussex and Yorkshire.
Any witnesses om the 1820 Marriage?
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What was the document where this place name was written? I am wondering if it was a child’s birth for example, maybe other children’s births will give the same place name.
It looks like
W, M or N - arre (or i) nser
I couldn’t see anything vaguely like it on Genuki. :-\
Added: you have now answered the question. It’s actually quite legible, though first letter is not obvious - the place name is just not recognisable. Saying the word might help, because it would have been written as heard.
If he died in Australia have you found an obituary for him? Did his wife and children ever join him in Australia?
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Hi,
The witnesses to the marriage were William Wilkinson (could sign his name, Thomas could not) and William Lightfoot.
I have attached the document with the word on it in two parts, the column was for 'Native of' the others on the page had easily extrapolated places from the UK. Another of the transportation documents says he is native of 'near Newcastle'
Sorry I am not being much help, very elusive family, it has taken me over ten years to find the Australia transportation! I have not seen an obituary, I looked on Trove newspapers and nothing definite that I could see.
His wife and children didn't join him, his wife had a few more children to a William Pringle after Thomas left but they don't seem to have married- I am thinking because Thomas was still alive.
Dan
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I live in Newcastle and, so far, I can't see it as anywhere I know. I've looked at a few maps and will keep looking. I'm trying to think what it might be in a Geordie accent.
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Might/could it be the name of a farm or property?
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Thanks everyone, I have been staring at an 1850s map of Newcastle and surrounding area and I can't see anything. Everything with this particular line of mine has to be hard one, nothing is ever easy! I appreciate everyone's time with this too.
Good shout on the farm too, I will keep looking!
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I think I've found a possible baptism for him - but it just says Newcastle. The parents listed as Richard and Jane - b. 25 Oct 1805 bpt 1st Dec 1805.
Add - a slurred Wallsend - Warrarsen ??
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I thought a slurred Wallsend or Willington. hmmm.
I saw the baptism, the trouble is there are quite a few if we start to look a few years each way and if it does turn out to be Wallsend, even more possibilities. I might build some trees for the contenders and see if any follow my lot about.
Thanks again,
Dan
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Thinking of accent, I am wondering if it might be something like Wark Common Farm at Cornhill. It's a bit of a stretch I know. One of my Northumbrian relatives from north Northumberland emigrated to Canada, and over there his place of origin was written as New Castile unner Thynce. Thankfully that was easier to fathom. There was much movement amongst the Northumbrians between the border region and the Tyne area / Gateshead and Durham.
P
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I wouldn't describe Cornhill (on Tweed) as 'near Newcastle' though :)
* over an hour's drive from us (Gosforth)
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I wouldn't describe Cornhill (on Tweed) as 'near Newcastle' though :)
* over an hour's drive from us (Gosforth)
The information I took onboard was, the individual was a Labourer from Northumberland who got married at Newcastle in 1820........
P
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Old place names of Northumberland.
The W's begin on page 204.
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/PLACE-NAMES%20OF%20NORTHUMBERLAND%20AND%20DURHAM%20(1).pdf
P
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Thanks for the continuing help- I can't get the place link to work though? Might be me being thick...
I'm giving up for now, head hurting!
Dan
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Old place names of Northumberland.
The W's begin on page 204.
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/PLACE-NAMES%20OF%20NORTHUMBERLAND%20AND%20DURHAM%20(1).pdf
P
It's because it's linked to Phoggets C drive.
There used to be a very good listing but it's disappeared. I was hoping that JenB would see the thread and have ideas about the location or link to the listing site.
If it is Newcastle area, it might not be on the listing. He does seem to have pent most of his life in the area.
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Well till he went to Australia! I found on Trove that he received a pardon in 1849 on condition he never returned to Britain or Ireland. Wonder if he stuck to it, his daughter married for a third time in 1874- she sadly lost two husbands to mining accidents- and a mysterious Thomas Wilkinson has signed her marriage cert as witness with a mark... I say mysterious as he is not related to her as far as we know- the only Thomas Wilkinson in the family is her nephew and he could write very well so wouldn't leave a mark.
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Maybe this is a possibility. There is a Warreners just to the north of Fairmoor, Morpeth. It is in the Ward of Pegswood and parish of Hebron. It is also marked on the Northumberland and Durham Waggonways site Tile No. NZ1585
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I was hoping that JenB would see the thread and have ideas about the location or link to the listing site.
Was it the Farm Index you were thinking of? (I think that is names taken from the 1861 census.)
https://northumberlandarchives.com/docs/Northumberland%20Farm%20Index%201860.pdf
Try this to get to the 'place name' link given by Phodgetts
https://altogetherarchaeology.org/links.php
Scroll down to 'Place names', it's the first one on the left.
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It does look like Warreners and there is a baptism in Morpeth on Freereg but it says resident of Morpeth...
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I found on Trove that he received a pardon in 1849 on condition he never returned to Britain or Ireland. Wonder if he stuck to it, his daughter married for a third time in 1874- and a mysterious Thomas Wilkinson has signed her marriage cert as witness with a mark...
Hello, I’m jumping across from the Australia board where you started this.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=851422.msg7191303#msg7191303
Sometimes ex-convicts did return home to Britain. It was not very common however, because it required funds.
I have looked further at your Thomas Wilkinson …..
Ship records show he departed from Launceston, Tasmania on 6 Jan 1852 on board “Sea Witch” bound for Melbourne. Under the terms of his conditional pardon, he was allowed to do this.
Then in June 1857 there is a Thomas Wilkinson (age 50) departing Melbourne on board “Montmorency” bound for Liverpool.
It is hard to know if this is your Thomas – the age is an approx. fit.
Perhaps you should look out for him in the 1861 -71 census back in England.
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Thank you so much, that's very interesting, I think he might have came back then. I did find a Thomas Wilkinson in nearby Pelton born Wallsend as I recall but he was married with a family, I wonder if that family postdates 1857? Time to look!
Thanks to everyone who has helped, this has been really exciting,
Dan
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Hi, I would give my vote for a mishearing of the name "Wallsend".
As a Geordie, I would think if you were to say it in a very broad Geordie accent it would sound something like, "Wahl-zen".
The "d" might not have been sounded at all.
...... we're not big on consonants :)
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It's Whickham in Durham!!!
I decided to write down all the Northumberland and Durham baptisms for a Thomas Wilkinson born 1805 in Northumberland in Durham 5 years each way and then started eliminating them based on noted burials, marriages while my Thomas was in Australia or who had children on census while he was in Australia.
So I get to this Whickham one and he is lodging with a William and Elizabeth Pitt in 1861, I reasoned Elizabeth might be a Wilkinson and a possible sister for a line of enquiry. She was one better, she is Thomas' dead wife's sister! I noticed this William Pitt had married Elizabeth Mutter born 1813 in North Shields, Thomas' wife was called Alice Mouter and she had a sister called Elizabeth born 1814 in North Shields. I find it very unlikely a random Thomas Wilkinson of the correct age would be lodging with his wife's sister and this Whickham one does not appear on census in 1851 when Thomas was in Australia, I've got him.
Over ten years it has taken me to find out Thomas' story, can I say a massive thank you to everyone who has helped me,
Dan
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Very impressive Dan. Congratulations on finding out what became of him.
I have been reading the thread with interest and do like it when things go well.
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Excellent work Dan ;D
I see 1871 he is born c 1806 Whickham Northumberland
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Thank you yes, he seems to have died in Dunston 1779 too.
There are two Thomas Wilkinsons baptised in Whickham but I can rule out the first one as his baptism states born Lamesley and this Thomas is demonstrably separate from mine on census.
So mine is Thomas Wilkinson born 25th Nov 1806 in Whickham illegitimate son of Ann Wilkinson baptised 23rd January 1807. All the records have those extra details they did for a while such as 'native of parish of' except mine, also the baptisms below and above are illegitimate and both name the father, mine doesn't, figures!
This makes sense though, he called his first daughter Ann. Now I need to find where she came from, it's just my luck to not have a father for him!
Thanks again, all the best,
Dan
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Well done - that's great news :)