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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Shetland Sausage on Wednesday 28 July 21 21:08 BST (UK)

Title: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Shetland Sausage on Wednesday 28 July 21 21:08 BST (UK)
I'd be really grateful if someone would be kind enough to help me decipher a birth entry for Anna daughter of Anna Landsdown please. It's the 2nd of October one. Am I right in thinking this is Latin - I'd have thought it was a bit late for that - maybe an old-fashioned cleric? Plus, I think the entry extends to 2 lines, but after 'Landsdown' I can't make head nor tail of it. Thanks.
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: GR2 on Wednesday 28 July 21 21:50 BST (UK)
It is indeed Latin:

Anna filia Annae Lansdown fornicariis amplexibus concepta Baptizata fuit

Anna/Anne daughter of Anna/Anne Lansdown conceived in the embraces of fornication was baptized
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Shetland Sausage on Wednesday 28 July 21 21:54 BST (UK)
Thank you very much. So I guess the last bit is just a way of saying 'illegitimate'? I wonder how normal it was for the recorder to be passing moral judgement like that?
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: GR2 on Wednesday 28 July 21 22:26 BST (UK)
If a child was illegitimate, the register of baptisms would always say so. It is recorded as a fact, rather than a moral judgement. I suppose it depends on the tone you use when you say fornicariis amplexibus  :o
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Shetland Sausage on Wednesday 28 July 21 22:31 BST (UK)
I guess it just feels a bit odd to my 21st Century head!
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: shanreagh on Thursday 29 July 21 08:23 BST (UK)
I have an ancestor whose birth notification 1840s Ireland has 'This child is a bastard' written on it where the father's name should have been. 
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Shetland Sausage on Thursday 29 July 21 09:04 BST (UK)
Ouch! I've seen one which got indexed as 'John Bustard', but was written as 'John, Bastard'.
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 29 July 21 09:12 BST (UK)
It is indeed Latin:

Anna filia Annae Lansdown fornicariis amplexibus concepta Baptizata fuit

Anna/Anne daughter of Anna/Anne Lansdown conceived in the embraces of fornication was baptized

The sin of fornication was when a single woman gave birth to a child.
If a married woman, and not her husband's child, then the sin was adultery.
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 29 July 21 15:18 BST (UK)
Am I right in thinking this is Latin - I'd have thought it was a bit late for that - maybe an old-fashioned cleric?

Latin was the language of the Catholic church until the last third of 20th century. Baptisms and church marriage registers for my family in first half of 20th century were in Latin.
A single mother would be required to go to confession before being churched. Churching was a thanksgiving ceremony for surviving the danger of childbirth, a welcome back to the church community and to society after the confinement of pregnancy and childbirth, and a blessing.
If the identity of the father of an illegitimate child was known and if he was a member of the church, a priest might speak to him about his duty to the child and mother.
As it was fornication and not adultery, the father of the baby was free to marry the mother. If he was still around and a member of the flock, he might be persuaded to "do the right thing" and marry.       
Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 29 July 21 16:16 BST (UK)

The sin of fornication was when a single woman gave birth to a child.
If a married woman, and not her husband's child, then the sin was adultery.

Generally speaking, fornication is between 2 single people. Adultery is when either or both are married  to someone else. The sin is fornication not the birth.
Bible translations differ.

1987 General Synod of the Church of England: "....  fornication and adultery are sins against this ideal ...".

Catholic Dictionary definition
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33619




Title: Re: ? Latin Birth Registration
Post by: Tickettyboo on Thursday 29 July 21 20:25 BST (UK)

As it was fornication and not adultery, the father of the baby was free to marry the mother. If he was still around and a member of the flock, he might be persuaded to "do the right thing" and marry.       

Or, more to the point for the parish purse, if  he was deemed to be the father, be made to pay for the upkeep of the child so the burden did not fall upon the parish.

Boo